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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8165979" data-attributes="member: 93670"><p>I think the jump silliness is a victim of 5e's "natural language boondoggle" & jump is a great example of using "natural language" to complicate a trivial bit of crunch to <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum" target="_blank">reductio ad absurdum</a> levels of complexity. back in 3.5 jump had pretty straightforward rules for how it works when you use the jump skill</p><p>[spoiler="3.5 jump"]</p><p>index sez</p><p>[ATTACH=full]131015[/ATTACH]</p><p>77 sez</p><p>[ATTACH=full]131014[/ATTACH]</p><p>[/spoiler]</p><p>You might need to do some simple addition or subtraction to the roll or dc, but the process was fairly simple & straightforward amounting to "how far does this 6 strength pc need to jump?".... but then came 5e</p><p>[spoiler="5e jump"]</p><p>index sez..</p><p>[ATTACH=full]131018[/ATTACH]</p><p>Wait what?... jump is on two pages so far apart... does 5e need <em>eight</em> pages to explain jump?.... 182 sez..</p><p>[ATTACH=full]131016[/ATTACH]</p><p>[/spoiler]</p><p>Well that's great that the barbarian & strength fighter probably doesn't need to roll so they can jump over an obstacle... what about everyone else who needs to roll? maybe 190 has that</p><p>[spoiler="190"]</p><p>[ATTACH=full]131019[/ATTACH]</p><p>[/spoiler]</p><p>what the heck?... why is this even mentioned in the index under jump? What about athletics?</p><p>[/spoiler="phb175"]</p><p>[ATTACH=full]131020[/ATTACH]</p><p>[/spoiler]</p><p>This looks promising!</p><p>[spoiler="examples include..."]</p><p>[ATTACH=full]131021[/ATTACH]</p><p>[/spoiler]</p><p>okay... how? good thing we got rid of "complicated" math like "The DC for the jump is equal to the distance jumped (in feet)." with a possible modifier if you were fast, slow, or did/didn't move the same/similar distance as required in 5e to auto succeed. People complain that 3.5 was bad about needing to cross reference stuff but here we are looking at 4 different pages & still not having a clue how to judge if the 6 strength kobold can make that jump with her athletics roll...</p><p>[spoiler="Surely the dmg will solve this"]</p><p>index sez</p><p>[ATTACH=full]131022[/ATTACH]</p><p>238 sez</p><p>[ATTACH=full]131023[/ATTACH]</p><p>well how should I decide if this is easy moderate hard or something else? Bob is saying that it should be very easy because the paladin barbarian & fighter didn't even need to roll, but it is a 6 strength kobold i plate armor trying to jump a pit before clearing the difficult terrain leading up to it Maybe if I keep reading there are some examples on the next page...</p><p>239 sez...</p><p>[ATTACH=full]131024[/ATTACH]</p><p>wait what the.... that seems to be the default & so far only written rule for jumping, why is it now a variant rule? huh I'm up to six pages & still don't know how it works... [/spoiler]</p><p>Not so much... I still don't know how jump works either. Alice you pass because I want to move on.</p><p><strong>edit: </strong>That is sadly the case with an awful lot of things obfuscated by 5e's natural language to pointlessly split pc & dm facing sides of a topic while often failing to even do much for clarity or anything.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 8165979, member: 93670"] I think the jump silliness is a victim of 5e's "natural language boondoggle" & jump is a great example of using "natural language" to complicate a trivial bit of crunch to [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum']reductio ad absurdum[/URL] levels of complexity. back in 3.5 jump had pretty straightforward rules for how it works when you use the jump skill [spoiler="3.5 jump"] index sez [ATTACH type="full" alt="1609958426893.png"]131015[/ATTACH] 77 sez [ATTACH type="full" alt="1609958322933.png"]131014[/ATTACH] [/spoiler] You might need to do some simple addition or subtraction to the roll or dc, but the process was fairly simple & straightforward amounting to "how far does this 6 strength pc need to jump?".... but then came 5e [spoiler="5e jump"] index sez.. [ATTACH type="full" alt="1609958583673.png"]131018[/ATTACH] Wait what?... jump is on two pages so far apart... does 5e need [I]eight[/I] pages to explain jump?.... 182 sez.. [ATTACH type="full" alt="1609958551508.png"]131016[/ATTACH] [/spoiler] Well that's great that the barbarian & strength fighter probably doesn't need to roll so they can jump over an obstacle... what about everyone else who needs to roll? maybe 190 has that [spoiler="190"] [ATTACH type="full" alt="1609958807079.png"]131019[/ATTACH] [/spoiler] what the heck?... why is this even mentioned in the index under jump? What about athletics? [/spoiler="phb175"] [ATTACH type="full" alt="1609958964619.png"]131020[/ATTACH] [/spoiler] This looks promising! [spoiler="examples include..."] [ATTACH type="full" alt="1609959056685.png"]131021[/ATTACH] [/spoiler] okay... how? good thing we got rid of "complicated" math like "The DC for the jump is equal to the distance jumped (in feet)." with a possible modifier if you were fast, slow, or did/didn't move the same/similar distance as required in 5e to auto succeed. People complain that 3.5 was bad about needing to cross reference stuff but here we are looking at 4 different pages & still not having a clue how to judge if the 6 strength kobold can make that jump with her athletics roll... [spoiler="Surely the dmg will solve this"] index sez [ATTACH type="full" alt="1609959575904.png"]131022[/ATTACH] 238 sez [ATTACH type="full" alt="1609959617849.png"]131023[/ATTACH] well how should I decide if this is easy moderate hard or something else? Bob is saying that it should be very easy because the paladin barbarian & fighter didn't even need to roll, but it is a 6 strength kobold i plate armor trying to jump a pit before clearing the difficult terrain leading up to it Maybe if I keep reading there are some examples on the next page... 239 sez... [ATTACH type="full" alt="1609959795859.png"]131024[/ATTACH] wait what the.... that seems to be the default & so far only written rule for jumping, why is it now a variant rule? huh I'm up to six pages & still don't know how it works... [/spoiler] Not so much... I still don't know how jump works either. Alice you pass because I want to move on. [B]edit: [/B]That is sadly the case with an awful lot of things obfuscated by 5e's natural language to pointlessly split pc & dm facing sides of a topic while often failing to even do much for clarity or anything. [/QUOTE]
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