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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dausuul" data-source="post: 6245194" data-attributes="member: 58197">With regard to the immortal paladin, I wouldn't say it's a crippling build, exactly, but it's certainly very demanding; you have to put a lot of your character resources into it. And of course you have to be 15th level! Here's how it works:<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">A 9th-level fighter gets the Defy Death ability: When reduced to 0 hit points by an attack that fails to kill you outright, you get a DC 15 Con save. If you succeed, you are instead reduced to 1 hit point.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">A 6th-level paladin gets the Aura of Courage ability: As long as you are conscious, you can grant a saving throw bonus equal to your Charisma modifier to any creature within 10 feet of you, including yourself.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Fighters are proficient in Constitution saves.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">By this level, you've earned four ability score boosts, for a total of +8. Use this to achieve Con 20/Cha 18. Your total Constitution save is now +5 (Con) +4 (Cha) +5 (proficiency) = +14. Thus, you will never roll less than a 15.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Under current playtest rules, a 1 does not automatically fail a saving throw. Therefore, you will never fail your Con save and always be left at 1 hit point. The only way you can die from hit point damage is if you're dealt enough damage to reduce you to negative max hit points in one shot. Thanks to your 20 Con and 15d10 hit dice, your max hit points are 169, so you'd have to take 170 points of damage from a single attack. As far as I know there is nothing in 5E that can deal this much damage in one go.</li> </ol>This is a legitimately broken exploit IMO, but there are plenty of ways Wizards could fix it, and it's not something anyone is going to stumble on by accident. You have to go well out of your way to make it happen. Then some smart-ass wizard comes along and casts trap the soul on you.I've seen it happen a number of times, usually when a player has a natural talent for optimization but isn't aware of how powerful a class can get. One example was when I made a 3E druid for a Planescape campaign. My past experience with companion creatures (mostly wizard familiars) suggested they tended to be on the weak side, so I made sure to choose options that would give me a good solid tiger companion. I figured it would provide a sturdy tank for me and the other casters in the party. What I ended up with was an engine of clawing, biting death that put the PCs completely in the shade--including my own! I was a reverse Vaarsuvius: Instead of half the time forgetting that my druid had an animal companion, I was half the time forgetting that my animal companion had a druid.Once the problem became apparent, the DM and I took steps to rectify it, but by that time we'd already played several sessions with a brokenly powerful character in the party. A better balanced system wouldn't have required rectification in the first place.</blockquote>

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