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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jgsugden" data-source="post: 9677792" data-attributes="member: 2629">Here are a few thoughts:Limiting Save or Suck: The easiest approach is to limit save or suck.  While the math can be annoying to track, one method is to apply the differential between the CR of the creature and the level of the PC as a modifier to the save for save or suck spells.  Suggestion becomes near automatic on lower level foes while it becomes very unreliable on higher level foes.  This sucks for save or suck dependent designs like an Enchantment wizard in big combats, but it works.  You can also do this as a smaller impact by doing the differential between proficiency bonuses.  This is not a total solve, but it tends to make those solo monsters more resistant to the 'encounter ending' spells.You can also implement the 'demi-legendary' rules that have been tossed around in a few places.  With those, any solo opponent can spend 20% of their max hp to turn a failed save into a success (up to 3 times per day).  I effectively use this - but I work various similarly themes abilities into the monsters rather than just having an overlay rule like the legendary monsters rules overlay multiple monster. Some get magic resistance to increase the changes of a save, others get ways to retreat if they fail certain saves and regroup (vampire misting, teleportation, etc...) Adding other Elements to the Encounter: I love the addition of a secondary 'villain' in the combat when your solo is not a Legendary Creature, but I believe it is better to do more with the encounter design to prevent the PCs from a quick win.  This takes the form of enhancing the environment to support the creature in a way that the creature would have sought out, and to perhaps enhance the creature a bit to make sure it works solo better.We had a combat with an Adult Black Dragon about a year ago.  The PCs snuck past the lizardmen that formed a community around the dragon's lake cave lair.  They thought of the dragon as a God.  The PCs swam to the bottom of the lake, entered the (not water logged) lair through a tunnel and then went from the smaller 'underground beach' cave, down a curvy passage and entered the football field sized chamber with the dragon in it.  That chamber had a series of water filled tunnels that connected ground level pools, and stalagmites and stalactites that were connected by bridges that the lizardmen walked when visiting the dragon to bring their offerings to it.  The dragon was asleep - until one of the PCs (even with PWOT) woke it by rolling a 1 on stealth (for a total of 9).  The dragon woke up rough 250 feet away from where the PCs were entering the chamber.The first enhancement I utilized was the terrain:  The tunnels allowed the monster to move around and limit enemy options to attack it.  The bridges and walkways encouraged the PCs to go to 'dangerous heights'.  This limited the opportunity for the PCs to just cast a save or suck spell.  It also made it unclear where the dragon might go when it dove out of sight. They also knew there were traps all over the place in the chamber - and the PCs did a great job of avoiding them.The second enhancement I utilized was my basic dragon rules - they're all spellcasters.  Every single dragon gets to cast spells, with Green Dragons being full spellcasters and the rest (in 2014 rules) using the alternate rules.  Further, every single dragon spell gets 1 free metamagic enhancement (sorcerers get metamagic from having a dragon ancestor - why not the dragons?).  This dragon had 3 spells - and I gave him one of level 4, one of level 3 and one of level 2.  The spells: Acidic Armor of Agathys (4th level casting - 20 temp hp, deals 20 acid damage), Distant Fog Cloud (3rd level - 60 foot radius, 240 foot range), and Quickened Vortex Warp.  It put on the Armor of Agathys in Round one, then put the Fog Cloud (120 diameter) over a quarter of the chamber in round 2, and then Vortex Warped a PC ally into a prison on 3 when the ally emerged from the fog cloud ... and that was the first time they saw the creature, which then disappeared while still out of range of all their readied actions.  It then hid from them for three rounds (to build tension and see if they'd move into a bad position while attempting to get to their trapped ally (who wisely never let the PCs know where he was trapped - they'd have needed to get through several traps to get to him and they knew there were traps).  I also enhance dragon breaths by giving them options.  This black dragon could shoot his acid breath into the roof and bounce it off turning the line into a lower power burst.  When it was underwater it could shoot the acid into the water in a swirl that gave it a damaging aura for a round (when enemies entered or entered their turn there).  The water aura was used defensively to good effect when the burly melee PC went after it in the water.  The third enhancement I added was a clock. I honestly forget the mechanism I used, but it was clear to the PCs that the lizardmen had been notified and were about 2 minutes away.  That raised the tension level significantly - especially during those rounds where the dragon was hiding.So how does all of that address Save or Suck spells?  That Dragon had Legendary Resistances and we have not even talked about the spellcasters hitting it with spells yet.  Why do I feel these enhancements address the risk of a save or suck taking out the big bad?Because the encounter was fun long before the first saving throw was rolled.  The PCs were on edge.  They had a lot to figure out, and they had to adapt to changing circumstances.  They felt the pressure of the incoming lizardmen, and they had to deal with a foe that was trying to outsmart them. Had they managed to kill the dragon quickly it would have felt like that was the culmination of several rounds of action.  It would not be a one round and done battle.  Is it less engaging to have the combat end in one round after that build up than to have three to six dynamic rounds?  Yes.  However, I think the set up and design take that one round of combat from a disappointment to a good time that could have been better.  As it turns out, they made some big mistakes and that turned into a near TPK with only one PC escaping ... sigh.</blockquote>

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