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*Dungeons & Dragons
It Is 2025 And Save Or Suck Spells Still Suck (the fun out of the game)
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<blockquote data-quote="TheSword" data-source="post: 9681896" data-attributes="member: 6879661"><p>A bit late to the party so apologies if someone has mentioned these points before.</p><p></p><p>The big weakness to Suggestion is that it is concentration. That instantly ends the effect of the spell if the caster is taking enough damage. Suggestion used in the way described sets an objective for the intelligent dragon to end the suggestion effect on its ally. It also sets an objective for the party - protect the bard. These objectives are good for combat in my opinion, making it more than just two sides whacking each other indiscriminately. I’d beg for these opportunities to add meaning to combat.</p><p></p><p>On that basis I’m surprised you chose to attack the monk. Suggestion only has a range of 30ft. If you had targeted the bard (and bearing in mind a young dragon has fly 80 plus another 30ft range for the breath so should have a pretty darn good threat range) then the suggestion would almost certainly of ended.</p><p></p><p>For me Tasha’s reveals a different problem. Players dealing enough damage to kill a creature in one round. Every single hit should have been giving the dragon another save with advantage. With a further save at the end of the round. With 127 hp and a +3 Wis save that must have been a very unlucky dragon. I don’t think it’s fair to blame Tasha’s for bad luck.</p><p></p><p>Personally I like some spells that step outside the hp bloat paradigm to resolve combat encounters in different ways. You still have a half dragon out there with a goal to avenge its mother. That’s an interesting outcome of using the spell. Certainly more interesting that a scorching ray.</p><p></p><p>A few follow up questions. Are you giving PCs boosts to their save DCs or ability stats? A level 4 character should be topping out at around DC 14.</p><p></p><p>Same for to hit rolls. A level 4 PC should be topping out at around +6 to hit. Even with attacks of opportunity the AC18 dragon should be tanking a lot of hits.</p><p></p><p>If your players can deal 127 damage in two rounds to an AC 18 creature then you probably need to use higher CR creatures to challenge them. If you were just unlucky with dice rolls, then that’s ok. But let that be reason the encounter went quickly rather than the existence of Tasha’s and Suggestion.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="TheSword, post: 9681896, member: 6879661"] A bit late to the party so apologies if someone has mentioned these points before. The big weakness to Suggestion is that it is concentration. That instantly ends the effect of the spell if the caster is taking enough damage. Suggestion used in the way described sets an objective for the intelligent dragon to end the suggestion effect on its ally. It also sets an objective for the party - protect the bard. These objectives are good for combat in my opinion, making it more than just two sides whacking each other indiscriminately. I’d beg for these opportunities to add meaning to combat. On that basis I’m surprised you chose to attack the monk. Suggestion only has a range of 30ft. If you had targeted the bard (and bearing in mind a young dragon has fly 80 plus another 30ft range for the breath so should have a pretty darn good threat range) then the suggestion would almost certainly of ended. For me Tasha’s reveals a different problem. Players dealing enough damage to kill a creature in one round. Every single hit should have been giving the dragon another save with advantage. With a further save at the end of the round. With 127 hp and a +3 Wis save that must have been a very unlucky dragon. I don’t think it’s fair to blame Tasha’s for bad luck. Personally I like some spells that step outside the hp bloat paradigm to resolve combat encounters in different ways. You still have a half dragon out there with a goal to avenge its mother. That’s an interesting outcome of using the spell. Certainly more interesting that a scorching ray. A few follow up questions. Are you giving PCs boosts to their save DCs or ability stats? A level 4 character should be topping out at around DC 14. Same for to hit rolls. A level 4 PC should be topping out at around +6 to hit. Even with attacks of opportunity the AC18 dragon should be tanking a lot of hits. If your players can deal 127 damage in two rounds to an AC 18 creature then you probably need to use higher CR creatures to challenge them. If you were just unlucky with dice rolls, then that’s ok. But let that be reason the encounter went quickly rather than the existence of Tasha’s and Suggestion. [/QUOTE]
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It Is 2025 And Save Or Suck Spells Still Suck (the fun out of the game)
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