Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
It is OK for a class to be the worst
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="NotAYakk" data-source="post: 7987270" data-attributes="member: 72555"><p>It is possible to do that while playing a peasant PC.</p><p></p><p>This reads like "I was poor and got rich, so everyone who is poor has only themselves to blame" nonsense.</p><p></p><p>The Beastmaster ranger, for example, has a problem that people who want to play it tend to like the idea of having a pet; but the class is designed such that the pet is cheap and easy to replace. <strong>This isn't the experience most of the people I've seen playing it want</strong>.</p><p></p><p>What they often end up with is a Ranger with no subclass, because they find that their pet is not strong enough to reliably survive combat. The risk they put their pet in isn't <strong>worth</strong> much.</p><p></p><p>And yes, you can play a Ranger-with-no-subclass and still contribute; you can play a peasant in 5e and still contribute. You just won't be telling a story that many people <strong>want to tell</strong> with that PC.</p><p></p><p>---</p><p></p><p>The design errors include the load on DMs. The Ranger class abilities require a very specific amount of wilderness exploration in the regions that the Ranger is specialized in, and a specific amount outside of it. Too much, and the Ranger's veto makes it boring; too little, and the ability doesn't do anything. Without the contrast, and both look like they do nothing.</p><p></p><p>The favored enemy has the same issue. The Ranger either has to get lucky with a good pick, they have to coordinate the pick with the DM's plot, or the DM has to coordinate enemies to match the Ranger's class ability (which does nothing and is ignorable if it is ignored).</p><p></p><p>With favored terrain and favored enemies missing, a beast pet that they are afraid to use (quite legitimately; this is their treasured companion, and it isn't very tough), what we end up with is a Ranger that is a depowered Fighter with a small number of fixed utility spells.</p><p></p><p>Oh, and its combat spells are almost all concentration based (thus conflict) and/or compete directly with their attack action (and are half-caster power level, so aren't a great trade).</p><p></p><p>And a pile of other abilities are poorly written as an extra bonus.</p><p></p><p>All of these things can be mitigated, but they require lots of work by the DM at the table.</p><p></p><p>Class Feature Variants Ranger options pretty much directly address the majority of these.</p><p></p><p>The companion becomes a spirit; so "being killed" doesn't <strong>kill it</strong>. The favoured foe and terrain become a list of utility spells, one of which reduces the concentration overhead of Hunter's Mark. A bunch of the poorly written abilities are rewritten (like hide in plain sight) with a thematically similar but mechanically better written version.</p><p></p><p>You end up with a PC that can tell <strong>the same kind of stories</strong>, but does it <strong>better</strong>. There are some small variations -- the largest one is is the primal spirit replacing the animal companion -- but now everything fits much better.</p><p></p><p>You go from "here are some mechanics that interact with subsystems many DMs don't use" to "here are some 1/day spells you can cast with explicit effects that match the same theme". From "pick an enemy, hope you get lucky or your DM helps" to "a similar combat boost, but no enemy attached, and fix another mechanical problem". Just a pile of polish.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="NotAYakk, post: 7987270, member: 72555"] It is possible to do that while playing a peasant PC. This reads like "I was poor and got rich, so everyone who is poor has only themselves to blame" nonsense. The Beastmaster ranger, for example, has a problem that people who want to play it tend to like the idea of having a pet; but the class is designed such that the pet is cheap and easy to replace. [B]This isn't the experience most of the people I've seen playing it want[/B]. What they often end up with is a Ranger with no subclass, because they find that their pet is not strong enough to reliably survive combat. The risk they put their pet in isn't [B]worth[/B] much. And yes, you can play a Ranger-with-no-subclass and still contribute; you can play a peasant in 5e and still contribute. You just won't be telling a story that many people [B]want to tell[/B] with that PC. --- The design errors include the load on DMs. The Ranger class abilities require a very specific amount of wilderness exploration in the regions that the Ranger is specialized in, and a specific amount outside of it. Too much, and the Ranger's veto makes it boring; too little, and the ability doesn't do anything. Without the contrast, and both look like they do nothing. The favored enemy has the same issue. The Ranger either has to get lucky with a good pick, they have to coordinate the pick with the DM's plot, or the DM has to coordinate enemies to match the Ranger's class ability (which does nothing and is ignorable if it is ignored). With favored terrain and favored enemies missing, a beast pet that they are afraid to use (quite legitimately; this is their treasured companion, and it isn't very tough), what we end up with is a Ranger that is a depowered Fighter with a small number of fixed utility spells. Oh, and its combat spells are almost all concentration based (thus conflict) and/or compete directly with their attack action (and are half-caster power level, so aren't a great trade). And a pile of other abilities are poorly written as an extra bonus. All of these things can be mitigated, but they require lots of work by the DM at the table. Class Feature Variants Ranger options pretty much directly address the majority of these. The companion becomes a spirit; so "being killed" doesn't [B]kill it[/B]. The favoured foe and terrain become a list of utility spells, one of which reduces the concentration overhead of Hunter's Mark. A bunch of the poorly written abilities are rewritten (like hide in plain sight) with a thematically similar but mechanically better written version. You end up with a PC that can tell [B]the same kind of stories[/B], but does it [B]better[/B]. There are some small variations -- the largest one is is the primal spirit replacing the animal companion -- but now everything fits much better. You go from "here are some mechanics that interact with subsystems many DMs don't use" to "here are some 1/day spells you can cast with explicit effects that match the same theme". From "pick an enemy, hope you get lucky or your DM helps" to "a similar combat boost, but no enemy attached, and fix another mechanical problem". Just a pile of polish. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
It is OK for a class to be the worst
Top