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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 2144794" data-attributes="member: 2011">Btw, another reason why item caster level being allowed to be lowered is an inconsistent and (quite frankly) stupid rule is that CL is effectively squared in the cost equation for most items (i.e. CL * SL ~= CL * CL * 2 for minimum cost items). Hence, the cost of lowering CL is not a linear decrease for no real loss for many items.For example, if lowering CL is allowed and a Dwarven Cleric with a Wisdom of 14 crafts a Belt of Dwarvenkind, it costs him (continuous or use activated item):4 (SL) * 7 (CL) * 2000 GP * 1.5 (10 mins per level spell) = 84000 GP / 2 (market value) or 42000 GP (creation cost)A Dwarven Bard with a Charisma of 14 crafts a Belt of Dwarvenkind and it costs him:2 (SL) * 4 (CL) * 2000 GP * 1.5 (10 mins per level spell) = 24000 GP / 2 (market value) or 12000 GP (creation cost)Should an item be worth (Market Value) 3.5 times the cost when one character crafts it versus another character crafting it where the ONLY real advantage is that when it is unattended, it has a 5% increase (2 + 0.5 CL = +4 when the Bard creates it and 2 + 0.5 CL = +5 when the Cleric creates it) in it's saving throw???That's ludicrous.For attended items (the time MOST items would ever get a save), it uses the higher of it's own saving throw and the user's saving throw which often is higher and hence, the item often saves at the same chance if attended.In other words, the different CL saving throw issue is ALMOST moot because most of the time, an item:a) often will not require a save because item saves are rare in the gameb) often will not require a save because a random item lower on the chart will take the save for itc) often use the higher saving throw as the user of the item when attendedd) only decrease the item save by a small percentage when unattended or not using the user's saving throw for most itemsGranted, a Belt of Dwarvenkind actually only has a Market Value of 14,900 (for some extremely bizarre unknown reason) and a Caster Level of 12 which if you think about it, a Belt of Darkvision alone should have a Market Value of 12000 (2nd level spell * 3rd level caster * 2000 GP), let alone all of the MASSIVE other benefits granted by the Belt.The item crafting rules are just plain broken and nearly worthless in the game for Wondrous Items.</blockquote>

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