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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 4678343" data-attributes="member: 82106">See, my problem with the magic item "system" in general is not "what amount of power does it grant to the characters". That's factored into the system and all, so fine. My beef with it is the cheapening of the whole theatrical concept of magic items. Look at the source material of the FRPG genre. Where in myth and fantasy literature are magic items virtually everyday implements (albeit fairly expensive commodities). "Magic item commoditization" rather spoils the sense of wonder. Magic isn't really MAGIC if it is just what you expect.Now sure, even in fantasy literature one could assume that "the bow of Legolas" or "the Sword of Boromir" were maybe lower level magic items, but then how really does that help? The situation in 4e is way beyond that, EVERY piddly 2nd level would-be hero must have his 2-3 +1 items. It's like a grocery store out there...At least in OD&D (for all its clunky rules systems) didn't essentially REQUIRE you to supply characters with magic. When the pcs DID find magic items it could be pretty special and dramatic, they were MAGICAL in the theatrical sense. Of course you could play it whichever way you wanted back then. The other sort of "problem" with the 4e system is narrative. At level 1 or so the fighter gets a +1 weapon. A few levels later she gets a +2 weapon, etc. It seems more thematic and interesting if the character can have a single unique weapon that they use throughout their career and that is identified with them. Maybe that doesn't ALWAYS have to happen, and other 'ancillary' items certainly don't need that kind of treatment (the fighter could easily switch cloaks every now and then to get better ones). Also this piecemeal approach to magic items misses a pretty important factor that can be used to shape the development of the character, the ability/need to structure the pcs build over the levels to most take advantage of the magic items they have at hand. As I'm sure many of you are thinking, this is all addressed to a certain extent in AV. I think WotC realized this sort of thing was a weakness in the narrative structure of (at least some) campaigns and that some GMs would desire to move their game in that direction.Thus in my campaign at least I like to lean on the guidelines in the AV appendix 1. Level scaling is good. You can give the dwarven fighter the magic axe weilded by a legendary ancestor at low level, so it gives him a +2 effect at 4th or 5th level. That's great and he's probably pretty sure to build his character around using that battle axe because it can level scale all the way up to being the mighty +6 vorpal axe of legend if he makes it to the top of the epic tier. And you can mix that with with or use the 'empowering events' concept (and/or the 'Item levels as treasure' mechanism) to provide the narrative justification. When the dwarf lops off the head of Akaz-Magom, the Hobgoblin King, with his +2 battle axe it 'powers up' to +3. I would say that making characters acquire specific types of components falls well within this sort of structure as well. Perhaps any old reagents are acceptable for making a +1 sword, but if you want to make truely legendary items, it can require more work. Or think of it the opposite way, PROVIDE certain special materials (monster parts certainly being the easiest but by far not the only way) and let the players come up with interesting and fun ways to use them. That really lets you tap into the player's 'wish list' without giving away the whole store as well.The standard smorgasbord sort of magic item/treasure system is fine and well suited for 'pick up' play or gaming groups that just like to focus on a rules driven kind of approach to play where all the drama and interest comes out of each encounter more or less on its own. The tools are there though to go beyond that, you just have to invest a bit of effort as a DM into the narrative.  Certainly to me that seems more fun than ye olde magic shoppe.</blockquote>

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