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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lord Pendragon" data-source="post: 1283689" data-attributes="member: 707">Not at all.  I'm saying that nobody gets a price reduction when creating a magic item.  I'm saying that the DM uses the price reductions to determine the value of an item that the party will find during an adventure.  i.e. Ancient Wizzie makes an elf-only Ring of Wizardy back in the day, at full price.  It sits in his tomb for 1000 years, and when the PCs find it, the DM figures that it's price is -% less, because it's an elf-only item.I'm saying that the Restriction rules aren't meant to provide a cost reduction for creating items at all, only for selling items that are restricted and thus more difficult for merchants to unload.Aside from the fact that they're in the DMG and not the PH?The DM using them is not a house rule.  Players using them is.How is a restriction "real and significant" and yet not a restriction for the maker or the primary user?  I remember a Shadowrun game I played in, where I created a physical adept who took "Cybernetic Intolerance" as one of his penalties, to get a hefty bonus.  But since physical adepts can't use cybernetic equipment anyway, it was basically a free bonus.  My GM let me do it, but as a DM I won't allow it in my games, nor do I think the designers meant for me to.Restricted items certainly have a resale restriction.  That's what they're meant for.  But items created by the PC aren't going to be sold 99% of the time.  They're going to be upgraded.  So for a player-created item, this downside will not come into play often, certainly not enough to warrant a huge gp discount in Item Creation.Are you saying that DMs should slavishly follow the pricing guidelines for Item Creation, but should House Rule the listed prices of Core items to balance it?And as a DM I wouldn't even think of it.  The PC is far more likely to get Ubersword mk1 upgraded.  Should he find an Ubersword 2, it'd be far more beneficial for him to sell the mk2 and upgrade the mk1, since the upgrade to mk1 would also receive a -30% cost reduction, on top of the zero sum loss of selling the mk2 at half market price.This is a very rare scenario.  First of all you'll need another PC capable of using the staff (another wizard, sorc, or rogue with high UMD), then you'll need the staff to be critical to success between the time the wizard goes down and the time he can be raised, and make enough of a difference that the party can still win without the wizard.  You're better off waiting to be struck by lightning.  And I'd certainly not hang a -30% reduction on magic items based on an event that will probably happen less than once per campaign.</blockquote>

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