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Message: <blockquote data-quote="aboyd" data-source="post: 4804656" data-attributes="member: 44797">I'm going to quote about 5 or 6 posts here, so I apologize up front for the length.  I'll try to be brief (and interesting), relatively speaking.I've been in campaigns where I wanted things that the DM stifled or undermined, and I agree that it sucks.  However, these things must involve some give & take.  What a player thinks is cool shouldn't be able to trump what a DM thinks is cool.  Sometimes things run counter to the DM's game world; other times they fit perfectly.  So if the DM won't give out a "Holy Keen Mercurial Longsword" right away, to me that's fine.  If it's not fine for you, that's OK too -- I post not to counter your point, but more to note that there is no "right" way to have fun.This may be a case where anecdote is not evidence.  Other DMs may be much better at that than your DM was.  I'd say I'm mediocre at this stuff at best, yet even I don't have 4 hour shop-a-thons, so I don't think you can tie that bad experience to what people are proposing in this thread.I am sorry you had that unenjoyable gaming experience, however.In my current campaign, the adventuring group is largely chaotic neutral in alignment.  They have murdered each other, robbed NPCs, betrayed quest-givers, and yes, discussed (but not carried out) taking a "protect the caravan, protect the trade route" quest simply to easily coup-de-grace the merchants in their sleep and steal everything.And I am actually fine with their play style, but it means that I have to be one of the guys in this thread who does care about how magical items are acquired.  The players necessitate such thinking.  I hope nobody would suggest I'm a sucky DM simply for coming up with a solution that works for all of us.Yeah.  My players would actually probably like more of that.  They have little interest in boring roll-to-see-if-it-exists scenarios, but they also have little interest in just pulling up to the magic item drive-thru.  When I gave them the name "Xylas" and told them that he was the weapons-master in town who sold exotic weapons out of his home (the weapons actually adorning his walls, some from his adventures when he was younger) the players ate it up.  They didn't find it stifling or annoying that they had to "uncover" the exotic weapons dealer.  At least I don't think they were annoyed -- they were smiling, chatting up Xylas for quest info, and asked for him by name the next time they were in town.  So I think there is room for our kind of thinking, DarkelvenSFi.I think Oryan has the impression that some have at least hinted that.  I decided to post this long thing simply because I felt a bit of what Oryan probably felt (I'm guessing) and I wanted to drop in one more post to advocate his point of view.  We geeks aren't the most socially agile group of people; sometimes we have to be advised to bathe before going out to play D&D with friends.  So it isn't far-fetched to suggest that some might have accidentally presented their point of view as the "one true way."  I don't know who gave off that vibe because frankly I'm too lazy to go back and re-read it.  That's probably for the best, as calling out a particular person most likely wouldn't keep the peace.It's a false assumption.  Or at least, I don't see the logic that drives us to the conclusion that only the best stuff exists.  It is hugely difficult & dangerous to make the best stuff, so it's rare, not common.  We've all seen The Princess Bride.  We all know what the six-fingered man did.  If your job is to arm dangerous people, your life expectancy gets shorter the better you are at arming them.  To deliberately participate in that danger requires a particularly brave individual who knows how to plan for contingencies.  Or at least, that's my game world... if for no other reason than my players are the ones who will pillage the unwary.Yeah, that.</blockquote>

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