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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Oryan77" data-source="post: 4804712" data-attributes="member: 18701">Apparently you completely missed my entire point. First of all, I hope you'd use your brain before doing anything...don't just limit it to offering magic items for sale <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing    :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" />What I'm saying is, if a DM is running his own world, it's more rewarding when you establish your own ideas rather than simply following orders from a text book. If you like the ideas from the book, that's great, run with it. But just because a book says something doesn't mean that's how every campaign should be run. It is also not a reason for players to argue with the DM and use that book as their ammo to back up their complaints.So when I say, "use your brain first", I mean; forget about what the book says, think to yourself first if you think that would make sense. If it does, then good. If it doesn't, players should not feel like they have a right to tell you that they should be allowed to have whatever eyecandy they want. This seems to be the norm nowadays. Players don't feel special for getting a neat magic item anymore; instead, they feel insulted if they don't get the specific magic items they want.The main problem I have with your arguments is that it is all based on metagaming. Your opinion is all based on out of game information & out of game opinions (if players think items are useless, then only the best stuff would exist in the game).Your 'logical' examples don't work because it is not really "logical". Sure, it's logical if you want to metagame and refer to what the rulebooks tell you & what feedback you get from players. But as far as your world is concerned in-game, is it possible for only "the best magic items" to be made without learning how to make the easy stuff first? I don't think you can build a rocket ship without first learning how to build a bottlerocket (or maybe you can, I'm no rocket scientist). Also, not everyone will be good at making the hard items, so the market might be full of more mundane items. So just because items are useless to players doesn't mean that should effect how your game world works. Anyway, we could go in circles talking about logic & D&D <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":]" title="Devious    :]" data-shortname=":]" />Let me just point out one more thing to support what I'm saying:You wrote:but a few sentences before that you wrote:For a lot of DMs, that exact quote does force them to use any rule in any book to play the game with players. If not, how many players are going to do what you do and throw quotes from the DMG at the DM and demand that he sell them the magic items they want? How many people groan when they hear that a DM doesn't even use magic item shops? So there is something that can force a DM to do it: players who refer to rulebooks first & the game world second.And so people don't get huffy & puffy, I want to be clear that I don't even think it makes a game bad if there are magic item shops. If magic items are so commonplace on that world, then that makes sense. My beef is only when magic items are supposed to be rare in your campaign, but players complain because the DMG says otherwise. Like I said before, if players didn't familiarize themselves with magic items in the DMG/MIC, they wouldn't complain about squat & they'd probably love any & every item you put into the game that was somewhat useful to their PC.</blockquote>

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