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<blockquote data-quote="tomBitonti" data-source="post: 4728374" data-attributes="member: 13107"><p>Hi,</p><p></p><p>My experience with multiple attacks wasn't that there was a problem for fighter attacks; there was a huge problem when special actions were added.</p><p></p><p>For example: The combination of Whip + Rapid Shot (why, oh why?) + Haste + This is a touch attack + Followup Trip Confirmation Roll. Then add on to that: Crack of Fate + Splat book extra attack. Then: AOO for standing up + Combat Reflexes. We had a player who could use more of the resolution time than all of the other players combined. He did <em>awesomely</em> hold off a huge horde of goblins, orcs, ogres, and giants, at a choke point, but it wasn't fair to the other players how much time he used.</p><p></p><p>My fix for this is to make special attacks (e.g., Power Attack and Trip) standard actions and be done with it.</p><p></p><p>Would you consider simply adopting flurry of blows as a single unified mechanic for making multiple attacks?</p><p></p><p>Also: Can we answer what is the basis for multiple attacks in the first place? What immersion are we trying to engender?</p><p></p><p>Also: Wasn't the combat round a <em>lot</em> longer in 1E? I think the justification for multiple attacks is reduced because of the shortening of rounds.</p><p></p><p>I do like this probabilistic argument for multiple attacks (which subsumes Cleave): For a portion of your round, if you miss someone, then you used all of your effort in that portion of the round to try for a hit, and you were unable to succeed. You ought not to get an additional attack. If you do get a hit, then chances are you expended less than your full effort on that attack, and you should get a followup attack (with a subtraction, since you only have so much effort left over). I would still want to allow you to divide your effort to make several less focused attacks.</p><p></p><p>Has anyone put the range of combat options on an axis:</p><p></p><p>Power Attack (-hit +dmg)</p><p>Normal Attack</p><p>Precise Attack (+hit -dmg) [don't think this currently exists]</p><p>Defensive Attack (-hit +ac) [Weapon Finesse, Fight Defensively, Full Defense]</p><p>Light Attack (extra attack, -hit) [Flurry of Blows]</p><p></p><p>Edit: Ok, here is a question: When going from a single attack (@+5BAB) to a second attack (@+6BAB) how much does that change your damage output? How much of an attack bonus is that equivalent to? Also, I can imagine that the maths work our very differently at this point if multiple attacks are disallowed, or are reduced.</p><p></p><p>Thx!</p><p></p><p>TomB</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tomBitonti, post: 4728374, member: 13107"] Hi, My experience with multiple attacks wasn't that there was a problem for fighter attacks; there was a huge problem when special actions were added. For example: The combination of Whip + Rapid Shot (why, oh why?) + Haste + This is a touch attack + Followup Trip Confirmation Roll. Then add on to that: Crack of Fate + Splat book extra attack. Then: AOO for standing up + Combat Reflexes. We had a player who could use more of the resolution time than all of the other players combined. He did [i]awesomely[/i] hold off a huge horde of goblins, orcs, ogres, and giants, at a choke point, but it wasn't fair to the other players how much time he used. My fix for this is to make special attacks (e.g., Power Attack and Trip) standard actions and be done with it. Would you consider simply adopting flurry of blows as a single unified mechanic for making multiple attacks? Also: Can we answer what is the basis for multiple attacks in the first place? What immersion are we trying to engender? Also: Wasn't the combat round a [i]lot[/i] longer in 1E? I think the justification for multiple attacks is reduced because of the shortening of rounds. I do like this probabilistic argument for multiple attacks (which subsumes Cleave): For a portion of your round, if you miss someone, then you used all of your effort in that portion of the round to try for a hit, and you were unable to succeed. You ought not to get an additional attack. If you do get a hit, then chances are you expended less than your full effort on that attack, and you should get a followup attack (with a subtraction, since you only have so much effort left over). I would still want to allow you to divide your effort to make several less focused attacks. Has anyone put the range of combat options on an axis: Power Attack (-hit +dmg) Normal Attack Precise Attack (+hit -dmg) [don't think this currently exists] Defensive Attack (-hit +ac) [Weapon Finesse, Fight Defensively, Full Defense] Light Attack (extra attack, -hit) [Flurry of Blows] Edit: Ok, here is a question: When going from a single attack (@+5BAB) to a second attack (@+6BAB) how much does that change your damage output? How much of an attack bonus is that equivalent to? Also, I can imagine that the maths work our very differently at this point if multiple attacks are disallowed, or are reduced. Thx! TomB [/QUOTE]
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