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Message: <blockquote data-quote="StreamOfTheSky" data-source="post: 5641477" data-attributes="member: 35909">The reason the spring attacking dual wielder is a trap is because you rely on hitting with both weapons and full attacking as a TWF.  Even if you got an ability to do a double hit as a standard, it wouldn't work, because Spring Attack is its own full round action.  The Paizo team was pretty adament on this, and even went out of their way to clarify how sucky Spring Attack is in regards to (not) working with Vital Strike.Further, SA actually works best for builds that can deliver one big hit...since you only get one hit.  So the big brute with a greatsword is actually the ideal user of SA.  Not Drizzd't (spelling), nor the monk...I'd also like to say that Dex-based combatants in general is a trap in Pathfinder.  Weapon Finesse costs a feat and limits you to crappy weapons, and there is no feat (If the DM allows the Dancing Dervish-y feat from whatever splatbook then there is one) to replace str with dex for damage.  Even with that Dervish feat, you're losing out on the sexy Str x 1.5 and the potential for 3x the attack penalty with Power Attack.  To add insult to injury, Weapon Finesse doesn't even apply to combat maneuvers (which are "just like attacks" except when they arbitrarily are not), you need a spearate feat for that!Further, a dex fighter, in the classic imagery, would be running around the battlefield, tumbling, flipping, rolling, and just generally being awesome.  Two problems with that: As a dex-based fighter, you're probably relying on TWF to keep your damage output respectable, which leads to the problem I already explained about Spring Attack.  Secondly, PF nerfed the ever-loving crap out of Tumble, so that it's now a suicide pact to try (look at my thread on Acrobatics: you're looking at getting AoO'd 50% of the time you try to tumble, and you NEED Skill Focus just to keep that meager success % from plummeting by level 10).  Simply put: You COULD blow tons of skill points just to eat 1.5 attacks from the monster for every (likely much weaker) one you dish out by doing a tumbling skirmish tactic.  Or...you could stand still like a good little PF melee class and make an even trade: full attack for full attack.  Except your options aren't even that rosy.  PF has a whole feat line begining with "Step Up" to let a monster follow you and AoO you even if you DO make that tumble check!  And they're super-duper easy to qualify for!So, in conclusion, a dextrous, agile fighter concept is an utter trap in Pathfinder, and should be avoided.  (Perhaps next time, I'll examine why Ranged Rogues completely and utterly fail in PF, combine it with this proof of combat mobility being suicidal, and prove that in PF the entire Rogue class is a trap <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> )</blockquote>

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