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It's a trap! Builds that seem good, but...
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<blockquote data-quote="StreamOfTheSky" data-source="post: 5641808" data-attributes="member: 35909"><p>Crossbows work fine in PF, they're just more feat-heavy, as in 3E. I think people really underestimate the ability to shoot from prone in a long-range shootout sort of fight, and with the gravity bow spell, the base damage of the heavy crossbow (which you're reloading as a free action thanks to the Crossbow Master feat) makes a decent difference over a longbow, too.</p><p></p><p>Monks as a whole are a trap, even worse than they were in 3E. Everyone who's played 3E or PF before should know this, but I'll say it definitively for anyone new: <strong>the entire monk class is a trap!</strong></p><p>Yes, even "that one archetype that looks really cool to you on paper and you're certain fixes the monks myriad problems." I will say...the Zen Archer Monk, by reducing MAD and giving a class based upon full attacks a combat mechanism to actually...full attack often... ALMOST achieves the vaunted status of "not a trap." But a Ranger still does it all with better HD, better skills, REAL genuine 100% authentic full BAB that you can see and touch (and use to qualify for feats at a reasonable character level), <strong>spellcasting</strong>, and <s>extra combat actions</s> an animal companion, so...still a trap. Also, note that Zen Archer does not modify a normal monk's starting gold at level 1. Look at the price of a bow. Look at what the archer ranger gets for starting gold. Now weep.</p><p></p><p></p><p>On an even more Captain Obvious note related to monks, and I really think this one goes without saying, but just in case you've never read an RPG product before in your life and don't feel like giving game rules a moderate few minutes of mental analyzation...</p><p><strong><u>THE MONK VOWS ARE ALMOST CERTAINLY THE ABSOLUTE MOST GIGANTIC TRAPS EVER WRITTEN IN ANY GAME SYSTEM. EEEEEEEEEEEVER!!!!! DO NOT TAKE THEM! ESPECIALLY VOW OF POVERTY! YOU COULD LITERALLY TRADE AWAY EVERY SINGLE MONK CLASS FEATURE THAT YOU GET FOR ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN RETURN AND ACTUALLY END UP MORE POWERFUL THAN A VOW OF POVERTY MONK!</u></strong></p><p></p><p>/public service announcement</p><p></p><p>I need to go look up how to make text larger, I don't think all caps, bold, and underline give that statement the emphasis it deserves. It's not every day you see the game's own designers, like Sean K. Reynolds, openly coming out and declaring that something is a horrible option that nosane person should ever take and basically mock anyone foolish/naive enough to do so. And yes, that seriously happened. Google seach "Pathfinder Vow of Poverty" or "Pathfinder Vow of Poverty Monk" and you should be able to find the posts if you don't believe me.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="StreamOfTheSky, post: 5641808, member: 35909"] Crossbows work fine in PF, they're just more feat-heavy, as in 3E. I think people really underestimate the ability to shoot from prone in a long-range shootout sort of fight, and with the gravity bow spell, the base damage of the heavy crossbow (which you're reloading as a free action thanks to the Crossbow Master feat) makes a decent difference over a longbow, too. Monks as a whole are a trap, even worse than they were in 3E. Everyone who's played 3E or PF before should know this, but I'll say it definitively for anyone new: [b]the entire monk class is a trap![/b] Yes, even "that one archetype that looks really cool to you on paper and you're certain fixes the monks myriad problems." I will say...the Zen Archer Monk, by reducing MAD and giving a class based upon full attacks a combat mechanism to actually...full attack often... ALMOST achieves the vaunted status of "not a trap." But a Ranger still does it all with better HD, better skills, REAL genuine 100% authentic full BAB that you can see and touch (and use to qualify for feats at a reasonable character level), [b]spellcasting[/b], and [s]extra combat actions[/s] an animal companion, so...still a trap. Also, note that Zen Archer does not modify a normal monk's starting gold at level 1. Look at the price of a bow. Look at what the archer ranger gets for starting gold. Now weep. On an even more Captain Obvious note related to monks, and I really think this one goes without saying, but just in case you've never read an RPG product before in your life and don't feel like giving game rules a moderate few minutes of mental analyzation... [b][u]THE MONK VOWS ARE ALMOST CERTAINLY THE ABSOLUTE MOST GIGANTIC TRAPS EVER WRITTEN IN ANY GAME SYSTEM. EEEEEEEEEEEVER!!!!! DO NOT TAKE THEM! ESPECIALLY VOW OF POVERTY! YOU COULD LITERALLY TRADE AWAY EVERY SINGLE MONK CLASS FEATURE THAT YOU GET FOR ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN RETURN AND ACTUALLY END UP MORE POWERFUL THAN A VOW OF POVERTY MONK![/u][/b][u][/u] /public service announcement I need to go look up how to make text larger, I don't think all caps, bold, and underline give that statement the emphasis it deserves. It's not every day you see the game's own designers, like Sean K. Reynolds, openly coming out and declaring that something is a horrible option that nosane person should ever take and basically mock anyone foolish/naive enough to do so. And yes, that seriously happened. Google seach "Pathfinder Vow of Poverty" or "Pathfinder Vow of Poverty Monk" and you should be able to find the posts if you don't believe me. [/QUOTE]
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