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<blockquote data-quote="Silverblade The Ench" data-source="post: 4890989" data-attributes="member: 19083"><p>Matthew,</p><p><em>"Count Strahd, in the Library, with the Rod of Azalin!"</em></p><p></p><p>I keed! I keed! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /></p><p></p><p>Other issues on Dark SUun:</p><p></p><p>Shamans I don't think really fit the idea of Athasian elemental priests at all, do they?</p><p>Elemental clerics revered a specific element and acted in all ways like normal clerics, just their spell selection was more specific and they coudl summon their element 1/day, plus they were oh, kind of rough and ready, they rarely had church heirarchies.</p><p></p><p>Shamans and druids are more like Athasian <em>druids </em>of 2nd ed, not clerics of the elements. But like I said, 4th ed druids need some more healing powers to be "secondary leaders" if you go down that path.</p><p>both would be sworn enemies of defilers and sorceror kings (and thus their templars), because defiling has caused the catastrophic state of Athas today...making defilers enemie sof the "Primal pwoers"</p><p>Hence another reason defiling is best left to NPCs or parties more evil in make up. Defiling is a serious issue in Dark Sun parties...almost anything else is forgivable except defiling (survival is primary on Athas, not morals!)</p><p></p><p>As a poster noted, sure, having defiling as feats makes perfect senses and avoids the mess of making up a new class! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p>Alas, 2nd ed didn't have feats so they didn't have so much leeway back then.</p><p>Bonuses to hit damage, recovering encounter/daily powers, based off a tree of feats, would be cool.</p><p>Defiling isn't wrong for the PHB, it's just wrong to let PCs have that power without consequence (which is damn near everyone will be out to kill you on sight of defiling, unless you find a patron or are VERY sneaky).</p><p></p><p>Gladiators wouldn't always be fighters. fighters are "defenders", gladiators are more likely to be "strikers", the crowd loves mayhem, i.e. high damage. "Marking" is not much used when it's about butchering your opponent in as entertainingly as possible and "team play" is less common? (but team matches do occur)</p><p>Defenders are much more likely to be soldiers and especially bodyguards!</p><p>Tempest, battlerager and 2handed weapon style are more likely for fighters in the arena and more defencive styles for bodyguards/soldiers.</p><p></p><p>I dont' think "boxing in" gladiators and templars to specific classes is a good idea at all.</p><p>Gladiator could well be a paragon path though.</p><p></p><p>The original boxed set did have fighters etc as "leaders", but, back then, you could have followers...but there was no mechanics etc for the "warlord" in those days. </p><p>You can become a leader by politics/circumstance, or skill (warlord or leader class), they aren't the same thing exactly.</p><p></p><p>Templars are as likely to be a pencil pusher who can use defencive/parlayzing spells, as paladins, or avengers or..most anything their sorceror king sees as useful (example: Nibenay's templars are all female and are his "Harem" as well as their usual roles).</p><p></p><p>Since in 4th ed, an NPC can have whatever the heck powers a DM thinks is appropriate for an encounter (just limited by damage rules etc), you can have a hell of a lot of leeway with templar design. Note also this makes sense because only they have access ot huge libraries of spell and psionic information.</p><p>So, one templar could be a master psion, another a very weedy but deadly divine spell caster, another one just robust (high con or defences) with the demagoge template from the DMG (a mouthy politician with a knack for survival)..and so on.</p><p></p><p>Hammanu of Urik is known for being a war-hungry SOB. His templars would tend to be paladins, warlords and able spell casters, but less effcient bureaucrats I think so his city would be oh..less effcient...</p><p>And templars who're good bureaucrats would have lots of bodyguards because they <em>know </em>they can't fight good (which is ok! Their slaves protect them, the templars' job is to keep the city running, not slaughter folk)</p><p></p><p>In my game, one PC is an avenger imbued with the wrath of ancient spirits to destory the sorceror kings...so 4th ed classes are ok, really, and as I said elsewhere, the use of "mutation" as a "Deus Ex Machina" and "schtick" for the setting, lets me fit in damn near any race/class.</p><p><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>PS, </p><p>Is Woolly Rupert the real leader of the Cylons, then? <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Silverblade The Ench, post: 4890989, member: 19083"] Matthew, [I]"Count Strahd, in the Library, with the Rod of Azalin!"[/I] I keed! I keed! :p Other issues on Dark SUun: Shamans I don't think really fit the idea of Athasian elemental priests at all, do they? Elemental clerics revered a specific element and acted in all ways like normal clerics, just their spell selection was more specific and they coudl summon their element 1/day, plus they were oh, kind of rough and ready, they rarely had church heirarchies. Shamans and druids are more like Athasian [I]druids [/I]of 2nd ed, not clerics of the elements. But like I said, 4th ed druids need some more healing powers to be "secondary leaders" if you go down that path. both would be sworn enemies of defilers and sorceror kings (and thus their templars), because defiling has caused the catastrophic state of Athas today...making defilers enemie sof the "Primal pwoers" Hence another reason defiling is best left to NPCs or parties more evil in make up. Defiling is a serious issue in Dark Sun parties...almost anything else is forgivable except defiling (survival is primary on Athas, not morals!) As a poster noted, sure, having defiling as feats makes perfect senses and avoids the mess of making up a new class! :) Alas, 2nd ed didn't have feats so they didn't have so much leeway back then. Bonuses to hit damage, recovering encounter/daily powers, based off a tree of feats, would be cool. Defiling isn't wrong for the PHB, it's just wrong to let PCs have that power without consequence (which is damn near everyone will be out to kill you on sight of defiling, unless you find a patron or are VERY sneaky). Gladiators wouldn't always be fighters. fighters are "defenders", gladiators are more likely to be "strikers", the crowd loves mayhem, i.e. high damage. "Marking" is not much used when it's about butchering your opponent in as entertainingly as possible and "team play" is less common? (but team matches do occur) Defenders are much more likely to be soldiers and especially bodyguards! Tempest, battlerager and 2handed weapon style are more likely for fighters in the arena and more defencive styles for bodyguards/soldiers. I dont' think "boxing in" gladiators and templars to specific classes is a good idea at all. Gladiator could well be a paragon path though. The original boxed set did have fighters etc as "leaders", but, back then, you could have followers...but there was no mechanics etc for the "warlord" in those days. You can become a leader by politics/circumstance, or skill (warlord or leader class), they aren't the same thing exactly. Templars are as likely to be a pencil pusher who can use defencive/parlayzing spells, as paladins, or avengers or..most anything their sorceror king sees as useful (example: Nibenay's templars are all female and are his "Harem" as well as their usual roles). Since in 4th ed, an NPC can have whatever the heck powers a DM thinks is appropriate for an encounter (just limited by damage rules etc), you can have a hell of a lot of leeway with templar design. Note also this makes sense because only they have access ot huge libraries of spell and psionic information. So, one templar could be a master psion, another a very weedy but deadly divine spell caster, another one just robust (high con or defences) with the demagoge template from the DMG (a mouthy politician with a knack for survival)..and so on. Hammanu of Urik is known for being a war-hungry SOB. His templars would tend to be paladins, warlords and able spell casters, but less effcient bureaucrats I think so his city would be oh..less effcient... And templars who're good bureaucrats would have lots of bodyguards because they [I]know [/I]they can't fight good (which is ok! Their slaves protect them, the templars' job is to keep the city running, not slaughter folk) In my game, one PC is an avenger imbued with the wrath of ancient spirits to destory the sorceror kings...so 4th ed classes are ok, really, and as I said elsewhere, the use of "mutation" as a "Deus Ex Machina" and "schtick" for the setting, lets me fit in damn near any race/class. :) PS, Is Woolly Rupert the real leader of the Cylons, then? :D [/QUOTE]
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