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<blockquote data-quote="Swarmkeeper" data-source="post: 8267249" data-attributes="member: 6921763"><p>I see that we have some... contention over a player with prior knowledge (via reading the AP/module) in a campaign.</p><p></p><p>I think it is worth exploring some nuances in what this might mean.</p><p></p><p>- - - - - - - -</p><p></p><p>Scenario 1: Player secretly reads/consults the AP/module to "win" the game - getting their character the best loot, bypassing challenges, hogging the spotlight, and being the "hero" at the cost of others at the table.</p><p></p><p>To me, this is the Jerk Fallacy in action. Sure this type of person could be out there but why even discuss them? They are not going to last at any table. Jerks can ruin anything.</p><p></p><p>- - - - - - - -</p><p></p><p>Scenario 2: Player reads/consults the AP/module to get a step up on the game, using the knowledge to gain advantage for themselves and the group.</p><p></p><p>To some, this person is outright cheating and deserves to be booted. </p><p>To others, this person might have a "video game mentality" where they are just looking for an edge and are genuinely ignorant of etiquette for a particular table that frowns upon this. </p><p>To some, the easy way to deal with this is for a DM to switch things up and let the players know that they are free to use whatever knowledge they like -- but that using said knowledge without testing assumptions in the game world can lead to unpleasant outcomes for their PC.</p><p></p><p>- - - - - - - -</p><p></p><p>Scenario 3: Player has read or even played/DMed the AP/module before this current campaign was even a thing.</p><p></p><p>Is it fair to exclude this person from the campaign just because they have prior knowledge? </p><p>Is it cheating if the player didn't reveal said knowledge prior to joining the campaign? </p><p>Even if it wasn't discussed at all at session zero? </p><p>Is it cheating if they use said prior knowledge in the new campaign? </p><p>Is it ok if they use it all the time? Some of the time? Once or twice? </p><p>As long as they don't tell anyone? </p><p>As long as they pretend for a few rounds that their character doesn't know to use fire against trolls?</p><p></p><p>It may be hard to find a place to draw a line on this one. I sense some here would just exclude this type of player from the get-go or boot them when it came up. Like scenario 2, I think others here just wouldn't worry about it.</p><p></p><p>- - - - - - - -</p><p></p><p>A good session zero DM might ask: "have you played, DMed, or otherwise read this AP/module before?" and then deal with table rules accordingly.</p><p> </p><p>A good session zero DM might also just say (as mentioned above and paraphrasing others posting upthread): "use whatever knowledge you like but know that I, as DM, likely have changed things up and making metagame assumptions to guide your in-game actions could cost your PC dearly." If everyone is playing in good faith and engaging with the game world through their PC, the whole concept of cheating via reading evaporates and people can get down to the serious business of having fun and creating exciting, memorable stories together.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Swarmkeeper, post: 8267249, member: 6921763"] I see that we have some... contention over a player with prior knowledge (via reading the AP/module) in a campaign. I think it is worth exploring some nuances in what this might mean. - - - - - - - - Scenario 1: Player secretly reads/consults the AP/module to "win" the game - getting their character the best loot, bypassing challenges, hogging the spotlight, and being the "hero" at the cost of others at the table. To me, this is the Jerk Fallacy in action. Sure this type of person could be out there but why even discuss them? They are not going to last at any table. Jerks can ruin anything. - - - - - - - - Scenario 2: Player reads/consults the AP/module to get a step up on the game, using the knowledge to gain advantage for themselves and the group. To some, this person is outright cheating and deserves to be booted. To others, this person might have a "video game mentality" where they are just looking for an edge and are genuinely ignorant of etiquette for a particular table that frowns upon this. To some, the easy way to deal with this is for a DM to switch things up and let the players know that they are free to use whatever knowledge they like -- but that using said knowledge without testing assumptions in the game world can lead to unpleasant outcomes for their PC. - - - - - - - - Scenario 3: Player has read or even played/DMed the AP/module before this current campaign was even a thing. Is it fair to exclude this person from the campaign just because they have prior knowledge? Is it cheating if the player didn't reveal said knowledge prior to joining the campaign? Even if it wasn't discussed at all at session zero? Is it cheating if they use said prior knowledge in the new campaign? Is it ok if they use it all the time? Some of the time? Once or twice? As long as they don't tell anyone? As long as they pretend for a few rounds that their character doesn't know to use fire against trolls? It may be hard to find a place to draw a line on this one. I sense some here would just exclude this type of player from the get-go or boot them when it came up. Like scenario 2, I think others here just wouldn't worry about it. - - - - - - - - A good session zero DM might ask: "have you played, DMed, or otherwise read this AP/module before?" and then deal with table rules accordingly. A good session zero DM might also just say (as mentioned above and paraphrasing others posting upthread): "use whatever knowledge you like but know that I, as DM, likely have changed things up and making metagame assumptions to guide your in-game actions could cost your PC dearly." If everyone is playing in good faith and engaging with the game world through their PC, the whole concept of cheating via reading evaporates and people can get down to the serious business of having fun and creating exciting, memorable stories together. [/QUOTE]
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