Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
It's official, WOTC hates Rangers (Tasha's version of Favored Foe is GARBAGE)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8124650" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>You really don't seem to get my problem with your spell usage. You are listing spells exclusively<strong> to keep your beast alive</strong>. </p><p></p><p>I mean, let's take the White Dragon for a second. If you have access to Protection from Energy, then you are at least 9th level, so let's say it is an Adult White Dragon. We'll say level 10 for math, just so I can say that the beast has 40 hp... and would die instantly if you don't use Protection from Energy to protect the Beast. Because the dragon does 54 damage with the breath weapon on average. </p><p></p><p>And, by protecting the Beast, you don't protect yourself. So, assuming you fail the DC 19 save, you just took 54 damage, which is devastating and you likely can't make the DC 27 Concentration save, so your spell is gone with the only effect being keeping your beast alive for one round. </p><p></p><p>And remember, Ranger's don't get a lot of spells and you've wanted to devote two feats, Protection from Energy. Protection from Poison, Cure Wounds, Stoneskin and Barkskin just off the top of my head to protecting your beast. That is a 1/3 of all your spellcasting and two feats.... and you still can't keep it alive for more than two or three rounds. </p><p></p><p>And then you want to add Beast Bond, Speak with Animals, Beast Sense... you are investing your entire ranger into this one aspect of your class. And it can't survive an adventuring day without you putting even more resources into it... and what about the rest of your party? If you are using three cure wounds on your beast... then you aren't using them on the Fighter or the Cleric. </p><p></p><p>Some of it spills over into the party, sure, but you are devoting a lot to just reaching the point of survival, let alone improving.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Robes, mantles and boots can't be worn by most beasts. Rings are hard to justify for some too. </p><p></p><p>But, assuming the treasure doesn't just increase, you are taking items that could have been given to other party members, or gold that could have been spent on other things.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, you are making a false comparison. </p><p></p><p>"Flying enemies" is more specific than "Anything over CR 5" </p><p></p><p>I mean, I keep looking at various monsters of CR's over 5. All of them deal about as much damage as that Orc Warchief you said you wouldn't send your snake to fight, so you can keep giving me examples of mid-ranged enemies, or enemies that fly, but I think you'd have a really hard time of finding a class in the game that does poorly against "Monsters of appropriate challenge level" </p><p></p><p>And before you list all the spellcasters who can't go into melee with those mosnters either... well, your beast isn't a spellcaster or even a ranged attacker. It is exclusively melee.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So, what, I need to go into specifics with the Beastmaster Ranger one of my players played, with a wolf companion named Umber, who only played the PHB version for three weeks after turning down my recommendation of going to the Revised version because she wasn't worried about the combat power of the class. </p><p></p><p>And then after those three weeks she came back to me, embarrassed and asked if she could still switch to the revised ranger because she was not having fun or feeling effective with the class? </p><p></p><p>And that even after that swtich, I needed to buff the Wolf at multiple points in the story (luckily she got up to shenanigans that allowed for it) because she was still under-performing the rest of the group by a sizeable margin?</p><p></p><p>Is letting you know all of that give me enough of a "founding" to speak on the subject? Does my two year campaign meet your requirements for seeing the class in action?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If I had the boots of Elvenkind, my steps can't be heard. That grants advantage on stealth. If it is impossible to see me (literal words from the description of Invisible) then why would that not grant advantage? Isn't "Can't be seen" as good of a situation as "Can't be heard"? </p><p></p><p>Also, I'm not going to get into the specifics of advantage math here, the general consensus I have always seen and referred to is +5. </p><p></p><p>Finally, no invocation needed. Find Familiar lets you see through the familiar's eyes and hear through their ears. You als have telepathic communication with them. If I can talk and also see in the same area, then I can provide the help action. The Help action grants advantage, unless you would like to find a way to either say that Perception can't benefit from the Help action or that seeing and hearing in the location and communicating with the person isn't enough to allow a Help action to be taken. Which... personally I don't see how that is possible.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yesterday? You don't get to switch companions on a whim. In fact, per RAW I see no way to get a new beast without the old one dying first.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Oh, missed those on my skimming. Yet more spells.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8124650, member: 6801228"] You really don't seem to get my problem with your spell usage. You are listing spells exclusively[B] to keep your beast alive[/B]. I mean, let's take the White Dragon for a second. If you have access to Protection from Energy, then you are at least 9th level, so let's say it is an Adult White Dragon. We'll say level 10 for math, just so I can say that the beast has 40 hp... and would die instantly if you don't use Protection from Energy to protect the Beast. Because the dragon does 54 damage with the breath weapon on average. And, by protecting the Beast, you don't protect yourself. So, assuming you fail the DC 19 save, you just took 54 damage, which is devastating and you likely can't make the DC 27 Concentration save, so your spell is gone with the only effect being keeping your beast alive for one round. And remember, Ranger's don't get a lot of spells and you've wanted to devote two feats, Protection from Energy. Protection from Poison, Cure Wounds, Stoneskin and Barkskin just off the top of my head to protecting your beast. That is a 1/3 of all your spellcasting and two feats.... and you still can't keep it alive for more than two or three rounds. And then you want to add Beast Bond, Speak with Animals, Beast Sense... you are investing your entire ranger into this one aspect of your class. And it can't survive an adventuring day without you putting even more resources into it... and what about the rest of your party? If you are using three cure wounds on your beast... then you aren't using them on the Fighter or the Cleric. Some of it spills over into the party, sure, but you are devoting a lot to just reaching the point of survival, let alone improving. Robes, mantles and boots can't be worn by most beasts. Rings are hard to justify for some too. But, assuming the treasure doesn't just increase, you are taking items that could have been given to other party members, or gold that could have been spent on other things. Again, you are making a false comparison. "Flying enemies" is more specific than "Anything over CR 5" I mean, I keep looking at various monsters of CR's over 5. All of them deal about as much damage as that Orc Warchief you said you wouldn't send your snake to fight, so you can keep giving me examples of mid-ranged enemies, or enemies that fly, but I think you'd have a really hard time of finding a class in the game that does poorly against "Monsters of appropriate challenge level" And before you list all the spellcasters who can't go into melee with those mosnters either... well, your beast isn't a spellcaster or even a ranged attacker. It is exclusively melee. So, what, I need to go into specifics with the Beastmaster Ranger one of my players played, with a wolf companion named Umber, who only played the PHB version for three weeks after turning down my recommendation of going to the Revised version because she wasn't worried about the combat power of the class. And then after those three weeks she came back to me, embarrassed and asked if she could still switch to the revised ranger because she was not having fun or feeling effective with the class? And that even after that swtich, I needed to buff the Wolf at multiple points in the story (luckily she got up to shenanigans that allowed for it) because she was still under-performing the rest of the group by a sizeable margin? Is letting you know all of that give me enough of a "founding" to speak on the subject? Does my two year campaign meet your requirements for seeing the class in action? If I had the boots of Elvenkind, my steps can't be heard. That grants advantage on stealth. If it is impossible to see me (literal words from the description of Invisible) then why would that not grant advantage? Isn't "Can't be seen" as good of a situation as "Can't be heard"? Also, I'm not going to get into the specifics of advantage math here, the general consensus I have always seen and referred to is +5. Finally, no invocation needed. Find Familiar lets you see through the familiar's eyes and hear through their ears. You als have telepathic communication with them. If I can talk and also see in the same area, then I can provide the help action. The Help action grants advantage, unless you would like to find a way to either say that Perception can't benefit from the Help action or that seeing and hearing in the location and communicating with the person isn't enough to allow a Help action to be taken. Which... personally I don't see how that is possible. Yesterday? You don't get to switch companions on a whim. In fact, per RAW I see no way to get a new beast without the old one dying first. Oh, missed those on my skimming. Yet more spells. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
It's official, WOTC hates Rangers (Tasha's version of Favored Foe is GARBAGE)
Top