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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Philip" data-source="post: 1737847" data-attributes="member: 10993">I think you did good to handle it that way, at least, if everybody had fun. If you didn't and the players suspect you might be holding back to spare them, they might become lax in their tactics, expecting you to pull them out of the fire.About the opponent: they promoted the Red Dragon from CR6 in 3.0 to CR7 in 3.5. The circumstances favored the Dragon, say +1 CR adjustment. CR 8 should be somewhat dangerous but do-able for a standard party.I think it is a combination of sub-optimal tactics and having a non-standard party with no heavy hitters. The party doesn't seem to have a tank, and has no artillery as well. This party seems very versatile, but is probably lacking a real 'punch'. CR's presuppose a standard party, and if a party deviates from the standard in some manner, you should adjust encounters accordingly.We have had some problems with non-standard parties as well. It had a 10th lvl fighter (swashbuckler type without Power Attack) as primary fighter and a Monk, Rogue and Cleric for combat support. None of them was capable of doing getting more than 1 or 2 points of damage past the DR 10/-, because 12 points was just their maximum possible melee damage output. Fortunately my Paladin/Sorcerer had a full complement of spells so we spent 8+ rounds just fireballing the thing over and over until it dropped.The dragon encounter was probably do-able, but only with optimal tactics.</blockquote>

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