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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Turjan" data-source="post: 1870572" data-attributes="member: 3477">But your statement is irrelevant. Of course you can insert Chaos Magic into your D&D. Nevertheless, in standard D&D, magic is not chaotic. It's mostly a scholarly discipline or handed down through hierarchy. Some people inherit it <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />.I never said anything like that. I said that "the standard D&D gods of magic" are neutral or lawful neutral. Magic, ok?I hope you are understanding what you are saying there. Most gods are lawful or neutral because it's a game? And that's 2/3? Aaaa-ha!I hope you are aware of the fact that your examples have nothing to do with magic per se. A concentration check deals with influences from outside. Spell penetration deals with characteristics of the target. Damage rolls are a highly abstract measure for the whole bunch of factors included in the hitpoint dynamics. The target gets a save because of its trained ability to deal with an assault. This all does not change anything with the fact that if a wizard knows the spell, has prepared the spell, speaks the right words, makes the right movements and does not get a hammer over his head, he will get his magic missile out. The D&D magic system, which comprises a large part of the whole rules, is one of the most ordered parts of the whole game.So you mean faith as a kind of mass hysteria, where wizards fail because they keep a cool head? Right, I can imagine that this could liberate some energy. I'm a bit amused that you haven't brought up the easiest argument yet: the notion that there is no such thing as the magic <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />.  If magic is a supernatural force that grants something, it's a god. Let's not go this road again <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />.I think you are straining the meaning of "chaotic" in the game sense a bit. Chaotic does not mean lack of knowledge <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />. Anyway, let's end this discussion, because it is lastly just a matter of taste. You like the magic system as it is, I don't. You are happy with D&D in its basic state, and I like to change some things. I am happy to live in the days of the OGL, because I have the solutions at hand. I can play AU and get rid of alignment (and discussions about alignment <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />) and the arcane/divine divide. Plus, I still have the "Green" <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> ... whatever that is <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />.</blockquote>

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