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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
I've introduced my 5th ed group to AD&D 2E
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 8706511" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>All your examples have in common characters which within their own narratives have the power of plot. The Flash in particular is an egregious example of a character whose power level varies tremendously from scene to scene as is needed by the plot, in a genre where power of plot dominates the story telling. (Which is why Supers RPGs have a notoriously hard time replicating the genre of the comic books.) You start gaming it and it's basically impossible to keep The Batman relevant in a world of Superman and The Flash, or to recreate any of the comics with the upper echelon of supes involved.</p><p></p><p>And Conan is fundamentally the same problem. Which of book Conan's attributes are below 12? In fact, Conan is the consummate example of a character who has 18 in every stat - he's strong, fast, hardy, whip smart, perceptive, and has a magnetic animal charisma that makes him instantly attractive to every woman and manly man he meets. He's good at everything he does from swinging a sword to leading an army. There is no skill he attempts that he fails at. And the same basic problem occurs with Drizzt Do'Urden. All the characters you are mentioning break the 1st rule of RPGs - "Thou shalt not be good at everything."</p><p></p><p>So when a player tries to build one of these uber characters that really don't need a party to succeed and who in the stories never fail at anything, they are going to quickly find that the rules by necessity prevent it. Even if the rules are flexible enough to allow the concept, what you end up with is not a character that is good at everything but a rather a character that is mediocre at everything and good at nothing. </p><p></p><p>This is not a failing of the game system. This is success in a game system. </p><p></p><p>Which isn't to say that the problem of "you can't build the character you imagine" isn't a huge failing of 2e, because it is. I'm only saying that in an RPG there are some characters from fiction that you shouldn't be able to import because they don't support the core aesthetics of gameplay in the game.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 8706511, member: 4937"] All your examples have in common characters which within their own narratives have the power of plot. The Flash in particular is an egregious example of a character whose power level varies tremendously from scene to scene as is needed by the plot, in a genre where power of plot dominates the story telling. (Which is why Supers RPGs have a notoriously hard time replicating the genre of the comic books.) You start gaming it and it's basically impossible to keep The Batman relevant in a world of Superman and The Flash, or to recreate any of the comics with the upper echelon of supes involved. And Conan is fundamentally the same problem. Which of book Conan's attributes are below 12? In fact, Conan is the consummate example of a character who has 18 in every stat - he's strong, fast, hardy, whip smart, perceptive, and has a magnetic animal charisma that makes him instantly attractive to every woman and manly man he meets. He's good at everything he does from swinging a sword to leading an army. There is no skill he attempts that he fails at. And the same basic problem occurs with Drizzt Do'Urden. All the characters you are mentioning break the 1st rule of RPGs - "Thou shalt not be good at everything." So when a player tries to build one of these uber characters that really don't need a party to succeed and who in the stories never fail at anything, they are going to quickly find that the rules by necessity prevent it. Even if the rules are flexible enough to allow the concept, what you end up with is not a character that is good at everything but a rather a character that is mediocre at everything and good at nothing. This is not a failing of the game system. This is success in a game system. Which isn't to say that the problem of "you can't build the character you imagine" isn't a huge failing of 2e, because it is. I'm only saying that in an RPG there are some characters from fiction that you shouldn't be able to import because they don't support the core aesthetics of gameplay in the game. [/QUOTE]
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I've introduced my 5th ed group to AD&D 2E
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