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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aegeri" data-source="post: 5420442" data-attributes="member: 78116">If that isn't what you are saying, then I think you've just assassinated your own argument for me - thank you for supporting and proving my entire point. My argument is that the Orb wizard isn't the same as the Staff, which isn't the same as the Wand, which isn't the same as the Tome, which isn't the same as the Enchanter, which isn't the same as the Illusionist and such forth. At the exact same time, all of these builds are still wizards, they have the same access to the same powers, the same feats and ultimately have the same overall goal on the table.The point is the Wizard/Mage are fundamentally similar to one another. You can alter how a Wizard/Mage plays by taking different features - making your argument about an Orb Wizard vs. an Enchanter mage absolutely invalid. Because the same argument you've made can equally apply to different implement wizards.Hence why you don't really have a strong argument - certainly one that is supported by direct play experience, as I have a mage in one game and a wizard in the other right now. With the exception of the mage getting magic missile for free, I honestly wouldn't be able to separate them in terms of "Is this guy clearly not a wizard?" Unless your argument is that an Orb Wizard and a Staff Wizard are not the same class then your argument doesn't work. The difference between those two builds is as dramatic as the difference between a Staff Wizard and Enchanter Mage, or the Orb Wizard and Enchanter Mage. Once again though the indisputable point is that they are both Wizards, with the Mage being a subclass of the Wizard.</blockquote>

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