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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aegeri" data-source="post: 5420648" data-attributes="member: 78116">Actually the whole point of the mage vs. wizard argument was in answer to "Can the DM of the game play a mage not having the books?". The answer to this is an incredibly simple "Yes". They have the same powers available to them - I honestly can't see why anyone should deny the original wizard access to the new powers either. Either way, Mage powers don't do anything that Wizard powers don't already as they follow the same structure. Think of something like Psionics, or the stance based Slayer and the Pet based Sentinel as classes with truly different mechanics.So here I might sound really inflammatory and I apologize, but if the mages pretty straightforward school class features (one of which is just a minor skill boost) and getting magic missile as a free feature means a DM cannot play them - who is already familiar with a wizard - I am simply flabbergasted. I mean let's look at the schools - the core difference between a wizard and mage.Enchantment: Level 1, +2 forced movement. Level 5, +2 to a choice from a couple of skills. Level 10, +2 to attack rolls of attacks you force an enemy to make.Evocation: Level 1, reroll one die that comes up 1. This isn't even that powerful. Level 5, +2 to a choice from a couple of skills. Level 10, ignore resistances outright (this is pretty great, no denying that).I won't carry on and list the other two, because I feel the above just makes my point 100% clear easily. I mean this is super straightforward stuff compared to psionics. A DM who is unfamiliar with a psionic character is in for a total nightmare - it's a fundamentally different set of rules for how their at-wills/encounters work. The above? I could play that mage in my sleep by this point: It's fundamentally on every level another variant on the wizard. In fact, I am not even convinced schools are always better than implement mastery. +Con all defenses for staffs? Penalizing saves by wisdom mod for Orbs? Mages "class features" other than getting MM actually IMO play catch up to the Wizard for the first part of the heroic tier.If you have someones character sheet and you look at the above, you shouldn't have a single problem playing that character. If you can play a wizard you can play a mage. That's the argument and IMO, this is an unassailable position unless someone can give me an amazing argument as to why a mage is more complicated to play than a wizard.</blockquote>

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