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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mengu" data-source="post: 5421089" data-attributes="member: 65726">Not to fuel the fire, but here is my take on it.I have played 4e since it came out, and before essentials I knew exactly how a fighter worked. I know how they mark, I know how their combat challenge works, etc. It didn't matter if it was a guardian or greatweapon or tempest fighter. They slayer comes out. If I'm thinking okay, slayer is just another fighter build that marks stuff, limits their mobility, and punishes them for disobeying his mark, then I'll be making a mistake. Slayer does not work like a fighter. A slayer can pull out a bow and put giant holes in the enemy at 20/40 squares. Monsters can shift around the slayer without worry to flank and shank him. Slayer is more akin to ranger than fighter in my book.It is not unreasonable to consider essentials classes to be new classes. You make fewer mistakes with that line of thought. Their commonalities are in the powers and feats they share. But everyone has powers. Compare a first level fighter with Precision Ambush Style, Footwork Lure, Crushing Surge, Covering Attack, and Come Back Strike, vs a first level avenger with Power of Skill, Overwhelming Strike, Radiant Vengeance, Pass at Arms, and Renewing Strike. The powers, and even the class specific feats can be very similar across classes. What's more class defining are the common class features such as Combat Challenge, or Oath of Enmity. Once you start blurring the lines there too, it becomes at best difficult to determine what defines the characteristics of a class.The character builder approach tells us, Fighter, Knight, and Slayer are just 3 builds (for lack of a better descriptor) that have sufficiently different rules that govern them, to warrant separate entries. And without playing on words, that is a separation to be aware and conscious of.</blockquote>

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