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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
I've spent the past few months breaking down the Ranger and trying to find some common ground across different fan expectations. Here's what I've got.
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<blockquote data-quote="1Mac" data-source="post: 6869965" data-attributes="member: 48998"><p>I'm just now getting into 5e enough so that my compulsive need to futz with systems is exerting itself <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />. So I've been reading and thinking about your ranger with great interest, as it tracks with my own thoughts about how to change the class.</p><p></p><p>I like a lot of it, but I'm going to start with my big complaint, which may hurt a bit: I just don't like Survivalist dice. I know how you were trying to avoid giving the Ranger warmed-over Sneak Attack dice, but I feel these are instead just warmed-over Combat Superiority dice that have kind of gotten into everything. I think a lot of your new ranger abilities are great but don't really gain anything by being tied to the new mechanic. And I even think the combat applications, which to be fair are modeled closely after the Battle Master fighter, could be done in another way that doesn't involve a resource you have to track.</p><p></p><p>I think you should go back to your original idea. Make Hunter's Mark/Quarry a core feature that applies to a chosen target that can't be switched until the target is defeated or you take an action to do so. You can either apply 1d6 damage, or forgo it to power some combat effect. If it's a reaction power or similarly outside your normal turn, you can't apply the bonus damage or use another power until the end of your next turn. That makes ranger powers a sort of currency, but one that you don't have to track from turn to turn. It also ties ranger combat to focused pursuit of a target, which seems very evocative to me. For non-combat powers, either make them always on or powered by a skill check of some kind.</p><p></p><p>So that's the real critical stuff. Now to other thoughts!</p><p></p><p>-Favored Enemy: I like the addition of combat utility here. With Quarry dice I might make it an additional Quarry die instead of advantage to attack. Sort of like Smite vs. demons and undead.</p><p></p><p>-Survival Expertise/Exploration Specialist: Taking the "expertise" out of Exploration Specialist and making it universal keeps things simple. I kind of miss the flavor of having expertise apply in your favored terrain. Maybe retain the proficiency bonus for Intelligence and Wisdom checks that aren't Survival. Also, even though it's redundant, I'd add Survival to the class skill list.</p><p></p><p>-Primeval Awareness: I would have maybe built this off a Perception check, but I like this, especially since it doesn't require a resource.</p><p></p><p>-Survivalist's Step: Good, though it needn't cost a resource in my opinion.</p><p></p><p>-Survivor's Rest: I have my own idea of how to handle ranger healing, again without any sort of resource tracking. I'll keep it to myself for now.</p><p></p><p>-Land's Stride: Good. I like the climb/swim speed additions. I thought they might be too much, but the Thief rogue gets a similar set of powers at third level. I'm curious why you omitted the advantage to saves against magical effects.</p><p></p><p>Hide in Plain Sight: New power is interesting, but maybe not very ranger-like. Aragorn/Strider certainly didn't blend in with the locals, as I recall.</p><p></p><p>Vanish: The chance to evade magical tracking is good. I was wondering what happened to Hide as a bonus action, but I see the stalker Hunter gets it.</p><p></p><p>Ready for Anything/Ranger's Warning: Initiative powers feel great with the ranger. Ready for Anything is one that could be powered with the Quarry die as mentioned, which would just mean you couldn't declare a quarry until your second turn.</p><p></p><p>Hunter Archetype: I like the new powers. The damage-dealing ones would need some consideration if they are to work with Quarry dice. Maybe you can reroll a 1 or 2 on any Quarry dice you roll, sort of like Great Weapon Fighting.</p><p></p><p>Beast Master: Interesting that they don't get Combat Style; I guess having a pet is the style! I like that the companion can act on its own while still requiring some actions to direct. I'd be inclined to keep the companion's original choice of actions since those are clearly defined. Mostly, it's Protect that strikes me as either vague or redundant. I do like Retrieve and Detect, and I like that Attack doesn't need to be reissued every turn.</p><p></p><p>Magic Fang seems a little out-of-place in terms of flavor, but I absolutely see the need for something like it. The maneuvers are great. Again with the Quarry dice: I would make a core feature of this archetype the ability for the companion to use them, though maybe they could only work for the ranger or his companion on any given turn. At any rate, this makes Quarry dice suitable currency for maneuvers.</p><p></p><p>Spellstrider: Great name! Good Tolkien reference. Why WotC didn't make spellcasting for the ranger an Archetype like this, when they already had models for it in other classes, I just don't know. Bonus druid spells on top of the normal Ranger spell list are great. I'm worried about spell progression. I'd make it more like the Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster, and if you want to include 5th level ranger spells, just make selecting one of them a Spellstrider power at a higher level, sort of like the Warlock's mystic arcanum.</p><p></p><p>I think this is a great framework for reimagining the ranger, much better than the Unearthed Arcana variants WotC has put out. It gives me some ideas for trying out my own variant. I'm interested to here what you think of my feedback, as that may shape my own approach to the ranger.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="1Mac, post: 6869965, member: 48998"] I'm just now getting into 5e enough so that my compulsive need to futz with systems is exerting itself :). So I've been reading and thinking about your ranger with great interest, as it tracks with my own thoughts about how to change the class. I like a lot of it, but I'm going to start with my big complaint, which may hurt a bit: I just don't like Survivalist dice. I know how you were trying to avoid giving the Ranger warmed-over Sneak Attack dice, but I feel these are instead just warmed-over Combat Superiority dice that have kind of gotten into everything. I think a lot of your new ranger abilities are great but don't really gain anything by being tied to the new mechanic. And I even think the combat applications, which to be fair are modeled closely after the Battle Master fighter, could be done in another way that doesn't involve a resource you have to track. I think you should go back to your original idea. Make Hunter's Mark/Quarry a core feature that applies to a chosen target that can't be switched until the target is defeated or you take an action to do so. You can either apply 1d6 damage, or forgo it to power some combat effect. If it's a reaction power or similarly outside your normal turn, you can't apply the bonus damage or use another power until the end of your next turn. That makes ranger powers a sort of currency, but one that you don't have to track from turn to turn. It also ties ranger combat to focused pursuit of a target, which seems very evocative to me. For non-combat powers, either make them always on or powered by a skill check of some kind. So that's the real critical stuff. Now to other thoughts! -Favored Enemy: I like the addition of combat utility here. With Quarry dice I might make it an additional Quarry die instead of advantage to attack. Sort of like Smite vs. demons and undead. -Survival Expertise/Exploration Specialist: Taking the "expertise" out of Exploration Specialist and making it universal keeps things simple. I kind of miss the flavor of having expertise apply in your favored terrain. Maybe retain the proficiency bonus for Intelligence and Wisdom checks that aren't Survival. Also, even though it's redundant, I'd add Survival to the class skill list. -Primeval Awareness: I would have maybe built this off a Perception check, but I like this, especially since it doesn't require a resource. -Survivalist's Step: Good, though it needn't cost a resource in my opinion. -Survivor's Rest: I have my own idea of how to handle ranger healing, again without any sort of resource tracking. I'll keep it to myself for now. -Land's Stride: Good. I like the climb/swim speed additions. I thought they might be too much, but the Thief rogue gets a similar set of powers at third level. I'm curious why you omitted the advantage to saves against magical effects. Hide in Plain Sight: New power is interesting, but maybe not very ranger-like. Aragorn/Strider certainly didn't blend in with the locals, as I recall. Vanish: The chance to evade magical tracking is good. I was wondering what happened to Hide as a bonus action, but I see the stalker Hunter gets it. Ready for Anything/Ranger's Warning: Initiative powers feel great with the ranger. Ready for Anything is one that could be powered with the Quarry die as mentioned, which would just mean you couldn't declare a quarry until your second turn. Hunter Archetype: I like the new powers. The damage-dealing ones would need some consideration if they are to work with Quarry dice. Maybe you can reroll a 1 or 2 on any Quarry dice you roll, sort of like Great Weapon Fighting. Beast Master: Interesting that they don't get Combat Style; I guess having a pet is the style! I like that the companion can act on its own while still requiring some actions to direct. I'd be inclined to keep the companion's original choice of actions since those are clearly defined. Mostly, it's Protect that strikes me as either vague or redundant. I do like Retrieve and Detect, and I like that Attack doesn't need to be reissued every turn. Magic Fang seems a little out-of-place in terms of flavor, but I absolutely see the need for something like it. The maneuvers are great. Again with the Quarry dice: I would make a core feature of this archetype the ability for the companion to use them, though maybe they could only work for the ranger or his companion on any given turn. At any rate, this makes Quarry dice suitable currency for maneuvers. Spellstrider: Great name! Good Tolkien reference. Why WotC didn't make spellcasting for the ranger an Archetype like this, when they already had models for it in other classes, I just don't know. Bonus druid spells on top of the normal Ranger spell list are great. I'm worried about spell progression. I'd make it more like the Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster, and if you want to include 5th level ranger spells, just make selecting one of them a Spellstrider power at a higher level, sort of like the Warlock's mystic arcanum. I think this is a great framework for reimagining the ranger, much better than the Unearthed Arcana variants WotC has put out. It gives me some ideas for trying out my own variant. I'm interested to here what you think of my feedback, as that may shape my own approach to the ranger. [/QUOTE]
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Community
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I've spent the past few months breaking down the Ranger and trying to find some common ground across different fan expectations. Here's what I've got.
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