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<blockquote data-quote="Vigilance" data-source="post: 4868593" data-attributes="member: 4275">I disagree here. Having different XP tables was a symptom of a very serious problem.Getting that &quot;second HD&quot; faster for the Thief might have been great but it's a bad thing that he NEEDED it because he was worse than the other classes. Mage gets sleep, Fighter gets the best HD and attack bonus, Cleric gets healing and turn undead and the thief gets a 15% chance to disarm traps. Or in other words, he had an 85% chance to NOT disarm a trap, and thereby put himself in extreme danger for the party.I think the classes not being balanced in D&amp;D prior to 3e was possibly the worst thing about the game.It created HOSTS of other problems (this is my opinion in case that isn't clear). The weird ability score requirements of some classes, like all Paladins needing a 17 Cha, was a cludgy attempt at balance after the fact.And of course, the fact that Unearthed Arcana and Oriental Adventures introduced a host of uber-classes really made the whole house of cards less stable than ever. Well, regardless of what he'd rather have been playing, I don't think his points were bad ones.A lot of the things that make people play retro-clones is nostalgia.That was the main point I saw him make, and I think he's right.Does that mean those games have no value as games? No, but then, I'm sure he didn't say that. He had plenty of good things to say about his game. Your point seems to be that preferring 3e over S&amp;W is subjective. Ok- I think that's rather obvious. I don't think Tweet was trying to say 3e is objectively better. He was just saying nostalgia and rules-lightness were S&amp;W's two main sources of appeal.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Vigilance, post: 4868593, member: 4275"] I disagree here. Having different XP tables was a symptom of a very serious problem. Getting that "second HD" faster for the Thief might have been great but it's a bad thing that he NEEDED it because he was worse than the other classes. Mage gets sleep, Fighter gets the best HD and attack bonus, Cleric gets healing and turn undead and the thief gets a 15% chance to disarm traps. Or in other words, he had an 85% chance to NOT disarm a trap, and thereby put himself in extreme danger for the party. I think the classes not being balanced in D&D prior to 3e was possibly the worst thing about the game. It created HOSTS of other problems (this is my opinion in case that isn't clear). The weird ability score requirements of some classes, like all Paladins needing a 17 Cha, was a cludgy attempt at balance after the fact. And of course, the fact that Unearthed Arcana and Oriental Adventures introduced a host of uber-classes really made the whole house of cards less stable than ever. Well, regardless of what he'd rather have been playing, I don't think his points were bad ones. A lot of the things that make people play retro-clones is nostalgia. That was the main point I saw him make, and I think he's right. Does that mean those games have no value as games? No, but then, I'm sure he didn't say that. He had plenty of good things to say about his game. Your point seems to be that preferring 3e over S&W is subjective. Ok- I think that's rather obvious. I don't think Tweet was trying to say 3e is objectively better. He was just saying nostalgia and rules-lightness were S&W's two main sources of appeal. [/QUOTE]

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