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ShortQuests -- Pocket Sized Adventures! An all-new collection of digest-sized D&D adventures designed for 1-2 game sessions.

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Scion" data-source="post: 1144293" data-attributes="member: 5777">Figther 4/Barbarian 4/Ranger 4/Rogue 4/Cleric 4(With Rogue at 1st level)Average HP: 100.5 + Conx20 (vs 96)BAB: 18 (vs 15)Skills: 112 + Intx23 (vs 118)Skill List: Ugly List, almost all. (same either way)Saves:Fort: 17+Con (Ugly!!!!)  (same)Refl: 11+Dex (Strong)  (same)Will: 8+Wis (Average)  (same) So far, your 'better than most classes' only pans out if you mean a non-multiclasser <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> The non-Joat has better hp and bab, doesnt miss out on very many skill points, and has the same saves.Bonus Figther Feats x3Rage 2/dayTrap Sense +2Damage Reduction 2/- (at level 20 adamantite armor is easy to get)Fast movementImproved Uncanny DodgeCleric Spellcasting abilities of 4 levelTrun undead as a cleric of level 4Spontaneous castingPower Domain as a 4 level cleric x2Sneak Attack +2d6Trap FindingEvasionFavored Enemy x1Combat Style x1Wild Empathy at 4th levelEndurence featAnimal CompanionRanger spellcasting abilities of level 4.So you gain 4 extra fighter feats (limited), next step of rage and a 4 more per day, +5 trap sense, more spellcasting, gain 4d6 sneak attack, gain 2 favored enemies and 2 combat styles.6 feats, lose turning ability (to destroy and additional hd damage), lose domain levels (2 instead of 4), cannot take weapon specialization, and have a lot of levels during which you are way way less powerful.Basically loss of 6 feats, 3 BAB (which also gains an attack/round), and 4 points of max skill rank for 4 fighter feats (imo worth a lot less than a full feat each), next step of rage and 4 more per day (worth more than one feat but maybe not two), +5 trap sense (worth a lot less than one feat, if it was +10 maybe, it just has so little use), +4d6 sneak attack dice (nice, but at this level it probably will almost never matter), 2 favored enemies and 2 combat styles (roughly a feat, as it is delayed over a lot of time), and the spellcasting which is worth more than a couple of feats. This is very rough and crude, but still, JOAT is ahead in the end while having to be behind for a long time.I think that looking at this class at its absolute most powerful with some of the best class choices in 3.5 (where they are better) while still coming out not incredibly out of whack Shows that this class is actually pretty good.So the question is, does going through a weaker point allow for a stronger end result? As that is what the Wizard is all about I'd have to say yes <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Barb 20Average HP: 135.5 + Conx20 (vs 96)BAB: 20 (vs 15)Skills: 92 + Intx23 (vs 118)Skill List: Barb list, not incredible but not badFort: 12+Con  (vs 17)Refl: 6+Dex  (vs 11)Will: 6+Wis  (vs 8) Fast Movement, Uncanny dodge, Improved Uncanny dodge, Rage, Greater Rage, Tireless Rage, Mighty Rage 6/day, damage reduction 5/-, Trap sense +6, Indomitable WillAll of his feats to choose fromWhile raging avg hp -> 215.5, saves -> F: 16, R: 6, W: 10 (14 vs enchantment)damage reduction 5/- is hard to beatThe barb may not have the sheer number of different abilities, but the ones that he has plus those he could choose from make him very formidable. Which is better? Depends on what you are trying to do, but at the very least they are close to one another in power, and this is at the very height of power for each.In a straight head to head fight the barb would have the advantage imo <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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