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JamesonCourage Is Starting A 4e Game; Looking For Pointers
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<blockquote data-quote="Pickles JG" data-source="post: 6179085" data-attributes="member: 61501"><p>What an enjoyable & interesting thread!</p><p></p><p>Here's my bit which slightly contradicts some of the earlier stuff. All combat as it's way<em> I</em> have played D&D for many years not just 4e<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>The sweet spot for monster levels vs PC levels is much smaller then it would appear at first sight, which I thought pre playing would be +/- 4 levels or more. The number of hits it takes to deal with a villain means this is not so as small differences matter more over all those rolls. </p><p></p><p>In practice level +/-2 is fine but +/-1 is better. More than that & lower level monsters do not feel threatening but still have lots of HP to grind through. Above that they hit too regularly which make PC defences feel irrelevant & they are too hard to hit consistently which is frustrating & <em>also </em>leads to feelings of grind. </p><p></p><p>Having a boss significantly higher level works once in a while to emphasise his annoyingness especially if he is supposed to get away, otherwise I would use an elite, converting him as mentioned by Balesir. It's also easy to scale a monster up or down a couple of levels if you want to use something specific, though not more than that or it will mean they are the "wrong" level & at that point they work as elites. Level 6 giants instead of level 10 say seems sad even as elites but it works for NPC types. There were a bunch of LFR adventures that had L5 Drow which felt very cheap pandering to Drow fanboys. </p><p></p><p>I would also point out that soldiers do not have higher defences than other monsters, they have higher AC. They do a very different job than brutes who are resilient & destructive. A couple of soldiers should work the way defenders do - they split up the parties damage output & stop them focus firing. They need something to protect. Artillery is best as they do lots of damage & are fragile but soldiers can protect anything. They provide another way of keeping your interesting villains alive longer without making them all elites. </p><p></p><p>Packs of soldiers are not at all interesting but if you remember their roles they can work well as part of a team. They are also relatively vulnerable cf Brutes to parties that target NADs a lot - Monk, Laser Cleric & Wizard would have less of an issue than Ranger, Warlord & Fighter fighting a Soldier but would not be so happy against a Brute.</p><p></p><p>Noone has mentioned controllers I think but they are another role that is best used sparingly as control effects can be frustrating. It's OK for most fights to have a bit of control but you do not want to load up on lots in one fight. Controllers tend to slow things down & are usually the most complex characters so harder to run. It is also something that seems to have a non linear impact - 2 controllers (PC or Monster) will have more than twice the control effect of 1 & the battle can get very locked down with 3 or more.</p><p></p><p>I would not bother with free expertise. It is a silly OP feat set but only when you get to level 11 when its +2. Lower level it's good but not mandatory. If you are careful with monster levels ie not too high you will not need this & you can reassess when you approach paragon tier. </p><p> </p><p></p><p>Hmm mind you adding expertise free means any old power that do not use weapons/implements will still lag behind but new ones will not.</p><p>This shows in the "old" powers like Dragonborn breath which is ability +2/4/6 to hit at the different tiers while more modern ones are +3/6/9. Ie the former "should" be buffed to the 3/6/9. Which is a pain if you use the character builder.</p><p>There contradicting myself.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Pickles JG, post: 6179085, member: 61501"] What an enjoyable & interesting thread! Here's my bit which slightly contradicts some of the earlier stuff. All combat as it's way[I] I[/I] have played D&D for many years not just 4e;) The sweet spot for monster levels vs PC levels is much smaller then it would appear at first sight, which I thought pre playing would be +/- 4 levels or more. The number of hits it takes to deal with a villain means this is not so as small differences matter more over all those rolls. In practice level +/-2 is fine but +/-1 is better. More than that & lower level monsters do not feel threatening but still have lots of HP to grind through. Above that they hit too regularly which make PC defences feel irrelevant & they are too hard to hit consistently which is frustrating & [I]also [/I]leads to feelings of grind. Having a boss significantly higher level works once in a while to emphasise his annoyingness especially if he is supposed to get away, otherwise I would use an elite, converting him as mentioned by Balesir. It's also easy to scale a monster up or down a couple of levels if you want to use something specific, though not more than that or it will mean they are the "wrong" level & at that point they work as elites. Level 6 giants instead of level 10 say seems sad even as elites but it works for NPC types. There were a bunch of LFR adventures that had L5 Drow which felt very cheap pandering to Drow fanboys. I would also point out that soldiers do not have higher defences than other monsters, they have higher AC. They do a very different job than brutes who are resilient & destructive. A couple of soldiers should work the way defenders do - they split up the parties damage output & stop them focus firing. They need something to protect. Artillery is best as they do lots of damage & are fragile but soldiers can protect anything. They provide another way of keeping your interesting villains alive longer without making them all elites. Packs of soldiers are not at all interesting but if you remember their roles they can work well as part of a team. They are also relatively vulnerable cf Brutes to parties that target NADs a lot - Monk, Laser Cleric & Wizard would have less of an issue than Ranger, Warlord & Fighter fighting a Soldier but would not be so happy against a Brute. Noone has mentioned controllers I think but they are another role that is best used sparingly as control effects can be frustrating. It's OK for most fights to have a bit of control but you do not want to load up on lots in one fight. Controllers tend to slow things down & are usually the most complex characters so harder to run. It is also something that seems to have a non linear impact - 2 controllers (PC or Monster) will have more than twice the control effect of 1 & the battle can get very locked down with 3 or more. I would not bother with free expertise. It is a silly OP feat set but only when you get to level 11 when its +2. Lower level it's good but not mandatory. If you are careful with monster levels ie not too high you will not need this & you can reassess when you approach paragon tier. Hmm mind you adding expertise free means any old power that do not use weapons/implements will still lag behind but new ones will not. This shows in the "old" powers like Dragonborn breath which is ability +2/4/6 to hit at the different tiers while more modern ones are +3/6/9. Ie the former "should" be buffed to the 3/6/9. Which is a pain if you use the character builder. There contradicting myself. [/QUOTE]
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JamesonCourage Is Starting A 4e Game; Looking For Pointers
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