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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 6265750" data-attributes="member: 6696971">Hey  [MENTION=6668292]JamesonCourage[/MENTION].  I noticed in the 5e character concept thread you expressed some dismay at the out of combat disparity twixt the Knight and Wizard in your group.  While I definitely agree that the Fighter should have gotten 4 skills (along with everyone else) instead of 3, I think partially what your friend is suffering from is possibly some character build problems.  4e actually is pretty flexible with its secondary build devices such that you can create all manner of archetypes with the base chassis of a class.I believe that your group is now 2nd level.  Below I've just created a quick and dirty Galahad type.  This guy would be a very effective melee controller (Defender Aura and slow on MBA with stance), is stout (20 AC vs 19 for high AC at level 2), has some good skirmishing (shift 1 on MBA with stance) and can easily be the faceman of a party (Intimidate and Bluff attain Medium DC @ 3 and Dip @ 8) while maintaining a huge Athletics check (attains Medium DC @ 3) and a hefty Acrobatics, Endurance, Heal and Streetwise checks (Medium DC @ 7, 5, 7, 6 respectively).  He can do all of the necessary noncombat stuff for the Fighter, gather information in urban environments, and succeed in parlays most of the time.Also, one thing that is particularly helpful for Fighters in 4e is their default high Athletics and Endurance checks.  In Exploration challenges (climbs, chases, journeys, survival in exposure scenarios, et al), you're probably going to want to be forcing the group to make a Group Check (everyone rolls vs DC, if half the group passes they get a success) once per Exploration Conflict.  Athletics, Endurance, Perception, Stealth are your standard group checks.  The Fighter basically anchors the group with an almost auto-success vs the Medium DC and a ~ 50 %ish (+/- 5ish) vs the Hard DC.  The PC with the huge Athletics check in my group has been an enormous benefit to the group because of this.  Further, you can make an Int build with Wis secondary and be a scholarly Fighter (with Arcana and Rituals) as well (and still maintain a high Athletics check).  Just food for thought if your Fighter (Knight) isn't enjoying himself out of combat.====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======level 2Human, Fighter (Knight)Knight Option: Shield FinesseHuman Power Selection Option: Heroic EffortDefender of the Oppressed (+2 to Streetwise)Theme: Chevalier FINAL ABILITY SCORESSTR 10, CON 14, DEX 13, INT 13, WIS 10, CHA 18 STARTING ABILITY SCORESSTR 10, CON 14, DEX 13, INT 13, WIS 10, CHA 16  AC: 20 Fort: 17 Ref: 14 Will: 17HP: 35 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 8 TRAINED SKILLSAthletics +10, Bluff +10, Endurance +8, Heal +6, Intimidate +10 UNTRAINED SKILLSAcrobatics +6, Arcana +2, Diplomacy +5, Dungeoneering +1, History +2, Insight +1, Nature +1, Perception +1, Religion +2, Stealth +2, Streetwise +7, Thievery +2 POWERSBasic Attack: Melee Basic AttackBasic Attack: Ranged Basic AttackChevalier Attack: Valiant ChargeHuman Racial Power: Heroic EffortFighter Attack: Battle GuardianMultiple Class Utility: Defender AuraFighter Utility: Measured CutFighter Utility: Defend the LineMultiple Class Attack: Power StrikeHeal Utility 2: Iron Resurgence FEATSLevel 1: Melee Training (Charisma)Level 1: Sly DodgeLevel 2: Duelist's Panache ITEMSMithral Plating Plate Armor +1 x1Parrying Halberd +1 x1Amulet of Protection +1 x1Riding Horse====== End ======</blockquote>

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