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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aegeri" data-source="post: 5425394" data-attributes="member: 78116">And bursts and blasts will pick you out from being hidden anyway. The point of that is if you're immobilized as a slayer, you can just pull out a ranged weapon and be completely competent in attacking with it. That's really all the point I was making.Cunning sneak doesn't allow you to become hidden in the shadows of your allies (not creatures). It allows you to become hidden if you move 3 squares and have any cover or concealment. The shade has a small advantage here in that his applies to creatures, but once again it costs you a standard action. Vs. not taking any action whatsoever except moving at least 3 squares. Noting that for your standard action you don't actually get to make a stealth check - you still need another action to do so. Making it a double action sink, at least a standard + move action.It also does allow you to remain hidden if you have cover/concealment. See the rules for stealth once you are hidden and what breaks being hidden.The difference is, IMO, that the shade excels at nothing yet pays a heavy cost (standard action sink racial and -1 healing surge) for it.I disagree, because I think the shade will be just as poor off. For example, the rogue is useless against spiders with tremorsense. What exactly makes the shade any better at dealing with those same tremorsensing spiders?Maybe but some of those leader utilities are very good and to be honest, I don't see a shade bard being very good either (despite having the stats for it). Here I will say the standard action sink on the racial is a massive detriment - especially for a leader.It's useless outside of combat because of the way the stealth rules work. It's two main benefits don't apply and while you could use allies to hide, that's the only thing it allows you to do differently. This is an extremely minor benefit, given that a warlock could simply walk three squares and do the same thing with his class feature for no cost whatsoever (as he will gain concealment)! That's a pretty niche use and will have extremely limited utility, while in combat it is a massive detrimental action sink.I am not convinced by this argument whatsoever.</blockquote>

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