Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="The Little Raven" data-source="post: 5425854" data-attributes="member: 10095">It is. You are only using the distracted enemy example.Let's say the enemy is not distracted (vigilant city guard).Let's say they don't have superior cover or total concealment, but have partial concealment (twilight).Let's say they are directly in the enemy's line of sight (walking down the road towards the gate).Let's say the party is making no attempt to hide.The Shade can hide from the guard in these conditions, outside of combat. The guard could be watching him walk down the road towards the gate in the dim twilight and he can just disappear and walk right past the guard, due to either the lighting or positioning his allies between himself and the guard. It isn't hard for a player to let the DM know he's going to move to keep his allies between him and the guard in an out of combat scenario (and a ready action would easily let someone do it in my game in-combat)The non-Shade (non-Cunning Sneak) cannot hide from the guard in these conditions, without a distraction, gaining superior cover or total concealment, or going outside of the guard's line of sight. The guard would be watching him walk down the road, and he'd either need to duck off the road behind something for superior cover or have something like a cloud of darkness descend upon him for total concealment. Then he'd be able to walk past the guard, due to the lighting.Let's say the enemy is not distracted (vigilant city guard).Let's say that the area is a brightly lit hallway, at least 3 squares across.Let's say the guard is positioned to 1 side of the hallway, at the middle of its length.Let's say there is no concealment and no cover aside from an ally.Let's say the ally is making no attempt to hide.The Shade can hide from the guard in these conditions, outside of combat. Out of combat, it should be no problem for the Shade to be able to keep his ally between him and the guard for cover. Unless the guard has some reason to actively look for a dude hiding in the shadow of a guy walking openly down a hallway, it'll go off without a hitch.The non-Shade (non-Cunning Sneak) cannot, since he cannot use his ally as cover and the guard is not distracted.I never claimed anyone could hide without cover or concealment. I said that the trained PC cannot begin to hide without superior cover or total concealment, while the Shade can... because the Shade can begin to hide with cover or concealment (not superior or total), like dim light or a waist-high wall. So, a trained PC and a Shade both would be perfectly visible to someone without low-light vision in dim light, but the Shade can begin hiding while the trained PC cannot.Movement ain't so easy when other characters are in play. I've had a Cunning Sneak in my group that has been able to use his group to keep himself hidden from enemies quite well, despite my efforts to break the cover granted by his allies.I never said this is better than Cunning Sneak. Let's stick with things I said, like the fact that it is better than someone simply trained in Stealth....and they can use partial cover and partial concealment to begin hiding, which is a big advantage when lighting conditions are actually defined.It hasn't been hard for my group's Cunning Sneak. He has managed to enter towns with his picture posted at the gate with the group because he can hide behind any of them or has no problem walking past in dim light without distractions.</blockquote>

Verification