Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Jeremy Crawford Discusses Details on Custom Origins
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8113010" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>Except... it isn't doing that job. It looks like that is it's job when you compare halflings and Goliaths, who have a height difference of (6'4" to 2'9") 3 ft and 7 inches minimum... but Mountain Dwarves also have a +2 strength and have a height of 4'2" which is only a foot and five, less than half the difference.</p><p></p><p>Firbolgs are equally as tall as Goliaths, but only get a +1 to strength, and the 5 ft tall Tabaxi (nearly foot taller than the dwarf, but also more than a foot shorter than the Goliath and Firbolg) gets no bonus to strength, just like the halfling whom is still two feet and three inches shorter than the Tabaxi.</p><p></p><p></p><p>So, if part of the job of Strength is to show height.... it fails completely. The same difference of +2 can represent anywhere from nearly four feet of height difference, to four inches. That is a difference of 1200% for that range. Which gets large enough that I suspect it was never intended to be a filling that role.</p><p></p><p>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><em>Double checks my post</em></p><p></p><p>So... I mentioned intelligence. In fact, other than the throw-away line about Dex, that was all I was talking about.</p><p></p><p>I also never said if it was Vhuman or Non-Vhuman... so I have no idea why you decided to focus on that.</p><p></p><p>And, you seem to have missed the point entirely.</p><p></p><p>High Elves are often depicted as the best wizards and magic-users in the world, with the strongest tradition of arcane learning and study, they are masters of it. They get a +1 Int.</p><p></p><p>Humans are depicted as adapatable, they can go in any direction, they don't really have that strong tradition of magic. They also get +1 INT.</p><p></p><p>Hobgoblins were not often depicted this way, they are never really considered some of the Premier Arcane Casters of the world.... they also get a +1 to Int.</p><p></p><p>If +1 INT is meant to represent a "Strong Tradition" then... humans, Hobgoblins, Gith, Warforged, Changelings, Tieflings, Fire Genasi... I mean, there is a big list here for +1 INT. All of them are well established and traditionally known for their study of Arcane Magic?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No, you said these stats came from traditions within those races. That isn't working with what life gives you. That is following tradition.</p><p></p><p>And, I could totally have rolled stats, and rolled an 17 or 16 for Strength, and made my Int and Dex dump stats. How is this different from simply taking the +1 from Int and moving it to Strength? How is one playing against type, but the other not if the end result was the same?</p><p></p><p>Are we trying to say that there are actual traditional numerical values, so that an Elf with a 16 Strength and 10 Dex is non-traditional but one with a 16 Dex and 10 strength is completely traditional? What if they were both 12's am I traditional or non-traditional?</p><p></p><p>(Also, side tangent, per RAW High Elves do not get a 1st level spell. Only the cantrip)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Okay, hold onto that thought that the PHB Elf might be different than the elves from specific settings.</p><p></p><p>We could have more printed versions of the elf, with other stat combos.</p><p></p><p>OR</p><p></p><p>We could use the Tasha's rules to move those stats around.</p><p></p><p>I mean, if the Athasian Elves are swift, but con artists, then maybe they get a +2 Dex and +1 Cha. And Maybe the Kagonesti have a +2 Con and +1 Wisdom. I can now represent multiple different types of elves, with a single rule, instead of needing to wait for them to release new stat lives that say it.</p><p></p><p>So, your "strong tradition" of elves getting a +2 Dex could easily be subverted by simply moving to a different setting. A setting we can now represent via Tasha's rules without having to get official products that tell us "this elf has different ASIs"</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Then you have some very specific hang ups and I cannot help you.</p><p></p><p>There is an easy path up Everest. Well trod with heated tents along the way. Climbing everest without those things and that path is still an accomplishment.</p><p></p><p>Heck, I can travel over a hundred miles in my car, and all I have to worry about is stiffness and boredom. It is easy. I'd still be impressed if someone walked a hundred miles.</p><p></p><p>If choosing your race because the bonuses don't match up is admirable, but choosing not to match up your bonuses when you could isn't... then you guys have trapped yourselves in some sort of strange contest. I can't understand why having a 14 INT as a Dwarven Wizard now is admirable and rewarding, pushing the envelope, but if you had the option to instead make a choice, and chose to play a 14 INT Dwarven Wizard instead of a 16 INT Dwarven wizard.. it is suddenly meaningless and stupid. You've ended up in the exact same place.</p><p></p><p>And, to take this a step further. I have often been blasted by people because I don't want to play a Dwarven Wizard, because I can't get a 16 INT by going that route. I see it as... how did you phrase it again? "Willingly gimping your character by making poor choices voluntarily is exactly a stupid thing to do."</p><p></p><p>And yet, I've been told that a "really clever player" with "proper mastery of the game" can have "just as much fun and fulfillment" by doing so. In fact, you just said it was rewarding to do so.</p><p></p><p>I guess choice is only choice if it is the type of choice you don't like.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8113010, member: 6801228"] Except... it isn't doing that job. It looks like that is it's job when you compare halflings and Goliaths, who have a height difference of (6'4" to 2'9") 3 ft and 7 inches minimum... but Mountain Dwarves also have a +2 strength and have a height of 4'2" which is only a foot and five, less than half the difference. Firbolgs are equally as tall as Goliaths, but only get a +1 to strength, and the 5 ft tall Tabaxi (nearly foot taller than the dwarf, but also more than a foot shorter than the Goliath and Firbolg) gets no bonus to strength, just like the halfling whom is still two feet and three inches shorter than the Tabaxi. So, if part of the job of Strength is to show height.... it fails completely. The same difference of +2 can represent anywhere from nearly four feet of height difference, to four inches. That is a difference of 1200% for that range. Which gets large enough that I suspect it was never intended to be a filling that role. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [I]Double checks my post[/I] So... I mentioned intelligence. In fact, other than the throw-away line about Dex, that was all I was talking about. I also never said if it was Vhuman or Non-Vhuman... so I have no idea why you decided to focus on that. And, you seem to have missed the point entirely. High Elves are often depicted as the best wizards and magic-users in the world, with the strongest tradition of arcane learning and study, they are masters of it. They get a +1 Int. Humans are depicted as adapatable, they can go in any direction, they don't really have that strong tradition of magic. They also get +1 INT. Hobgoblins were not often depicted this way, they are never really considered some of the Premier Arcane Casters of the world.... they also get a +1 to Int. If +1 INT is meant to represent a "Strong Tradition" then... humans, Hobgoblins, Gith, Warforged, Changelings, Tieflings, Fire Genasi... I mean, there is a big list here for +1 INT. All of them are well established and traditionally known for their study of Arcane Magic? No, you said these stats came from traditions within those races. That isn't working with what life gives you. That is following tradition. And, I could totally have rolled stats, and rolled an 17 or 16 for Strength, and made my Int and Dex dump stats. How is this different from simply taking the +1 from Int and moving it to Strength? How is one playing against type, but the other not if the end result was the same? Are we trying to say that there are actual traditional numerical values, so that an Elf with a 16 Strength and 10 Dex is non-traditional but one with a 16 Dex and 10 strength is completely traditional? What if they were both 12's am I traditional or non-traditional? (Also, side tangent, per RAW High Elves do not get a 1st level spell. Only the cantrip) Okay, hold onto that thought that the PHB Elf might be different than the elves from specific settings. We could have more printed versions of the elf, with other stat combos. OR We could use the Tasha's rules to move those stats around. I mean, if the Athasian Elves are swift, but con artists, then maybe they get a +2 Dex and +1 Cha. And Maybe the Kagonesti have a +2 Con and +1 Wisdom. I can now represent multiple different types of elves, with a single rule, instead of needing to wait for them to release new stat lives that say it. So, your "strong tradition" of elves getting a +2 Dex could easily be subverted by simply moving to a different setting. A setting we can now represent via Tasha's rules without having to get official products that tell us "this elf has different ASIs" Then you have some very specific hang ups and I cannot help you. There is an easy path up Everest. Well trod with heated tents along the way. Climbing everest without those things and that path is still an accomplishment. Heck, I can travel over a hundred miles in my car, and all I have to worry about is stiffness and boredom. It is easy. I'd still be impressed if someone walked a hundred miles. If choosing your race because the bonuses don't match up is admirable, but choosing not to match up your bonuses when you could isn't... then you guys have trapped yourselves in some sort of strange contest. I can't understand why having a 14 INT as a Dwarven Wizard now is admirable and rewarding, pushing the envelope, but if you had the option to instead make a choice, and chose to play a 14 INT Dwarven Wizard instead of a 16 INT Dwarven wizard.. it is suddenly meaningless and stupid. You've ended up in the exact same place. And, to take this a step further. I have often been blasted by people because I don't want to play a Dwarven Wizard, because I can't get a 16 INT by going that route. I see it as... how did you phrase it again? "Willingly gimping your character by making poor choices voluntarily is exactly a stupid thing to do." And yet, I've been told that a "really clever player" with "proper mastery of the game" can have "just as much fun and fulfillment" by doing so. In fact, you just said it was rewarding to do so. I guess choice is only choice if it is the type of choice you don't like. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Jeremy Crawford Discusses Details on Custom Origins
Top