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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8114414" data-attributes="member: 6801228">So, you pointed me to Mordenkainens, and when it didn't say what you wanted, you pull out the Sword Coast. So we are, as I suspected, now on the third book I need to read to understand the culture and why Hill Dwarves get a +1 Wisdom and why Mountain Dwarves don't. But okay, I'll go read it, let us see how messed up this is. a few minutes later Okay, yeah, we have a problem. See, this book does present Gold Dwarves this way. They talk about how Gold Dwarves are optimistic and their lands peaceful, they talk about how the Gold dwarves toil away at making perfect items. It does not talk about how they rarely if ever see the sun, because they are constantly underground. It does not talk about the war they fought to build their homes. It does not talk about their intense suspicion of outsiders or their desire to flaunt their wealth. And I'm left wondering, how do I square being optimistic and eager to trade with being suspicious and secretive towards everyone? The books give me no guidance on this, and in fact, it seems to be a bit of a contradiction. Almost as though there are two different versions of Gold Dwarves for Faerun. Mordenkainens' and the Sword Coasts. And the same thing happens with Shield Dwarves. In Mordenkainen's it says "The openness of the shield dwarves as a people manifests on a personal level as well, with individuals being far more likely to travel among and make friends with other races." However, in the Sword Coast we get that " Living in a near-constant state of war for generations, shield dwarves are a hardy people, slow to trust, with long memories and often an equally long list of grievances against their ancient enemies." And actually calls out that the more conservative of the Shield Dwarves want to cut themselves off from the outside world entirely. So, they are an open people who are much more likely to befriend other races and make trade agreements with neighboring nations, who are at the same time slow to trust outsiders and hold long grudges against anyone who wronged them. And this kind of circles us right back to what I said initially. Mountain Dwarves and Hill dwarves across the books are nearly identical. If I take both of these books as being true, then both sections show an open people willing to trade who are at the same time great warriors with an abiding distrust of outsiders. They are both. So, which book gives us the definitive answer? Or are they both true? Why are they contradicting each other? And why should a player or a new DM need to buy three different books to get a full image of what a dwarf is and why they have the stats they have?------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Wisdom is just a hard stat to define. It covers your connection to the world via Druidic and Clerical magic, it covers your ability to perceive and pay attention, your empathy and it also covers your willpower and ability to resist effects. And then there is the traditional meaning of "wise" which is really just intelligence but not science or math. I think it covers so much as a catch all, which makes it harder to define. I mean, do you define it via a person who has an easy time with visual acuity? Emotional Acuity? Maybe you just look for the people who are insightful. Who can say and act in ways that cut through the world to the heart of issues. Which means the highest wisdom we are likely to find is around 14, because it is such a rare thing to find in people. Sorry if I'm getting a bit heavy for a distraction, was watching heavy stuff before I got on EnWorld</blockquote>

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