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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8114948" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Yeah, I tried calling the tech support people, and their only advice was to turn off the anti-virus. And, I've had the anti-virus for most of the year (bought it the  same time I got this new computer) so... not sure why this month everything has been going wrong."Designed to be dropped into whatever setting people want" Also, they are specifically called out to be the Dwarves of both of those settings. So, saying they aren't those dwarves when they specifically are, seems to be shifty.And the Sword Coast can't contradict the PHB, because the PHB says nothing. Mordenkainens, which came out at least a year after Sword Coast, is the one contradicting it. And, lets just ask the question you won't answer. Why do Hill Dwarves have "keen senses, deep intuition, and greater resilience" than mountain dwarves? The PHB doesn't tell us. It states that they are and we just have to guess why. People proposed culture, but this applies to two different cultures that are radically different, Gold Dwarves are much closer in attitude and culture to Greyhawk's Mountain Dwarves. So, how do we explain this?You say that a Mountain Dwarves could be rolled to be Hill Dwarves.... but doesn't that completely prove my point? A Mountain Dwarf with high Wisdom isn't breaking any lore, he isn't destroying the status quo. And, I could just as easily represent him with the Hill Dwarf stats. After all, if he was a cleric or Fighter, he gets the mountain Dwarf armor anyways. Just missing a little strength, which maybe I can just roll.Real life also has people who hold the same culture despite being seperated by dozens or hundreds of miles. So, is the two mile trek down the mountain really enough? Also, while human cultures do change, they change over generations. Over the course of 100 years, we have 5 generations. Dwarves might have two. That is a much slower rate of change, and would make that sort of culture drift much less likely.And sure, you could find hills without mountains. But do Hill Dwarves live there? I mean deserts have hills. Do Hill Dwarves live in the desert? Maybe they live in the Tundra, those have hills. Forests have hills too. In fact, I think those hill dwarves would have a bigger difference in culture than you would find between Mountain Dwarves living in the Mountains and Hill Dwarves living in the foothills of those mountains.Aw, infallible logic. They are different because they are different. Solid logic.... Especially since the PHB says nothing of the sort. In fact, it says the opposite. Wanna know how I know? Because under the entry of Hill Dwarves, it says that in the Forgotten Realms Hill Dwarves are called Gold Dwarves. It specifically says they are the same. Oh! You might have gotten confused again, mixing up Gold Dwarves and Mountain Dwarves, which are supposed to be different, but they are described the exact same way in Mordenkainens. Okay, that is unfair it isn't "exact" they are both just xenophobic shut-ins who fight underground wars against dark threats to their livelihoods and think of themselves as the true dwarves. But it they don't copy and paste the lore. Oh, and the Shield Dwarves and Hill Dwarves are their more adventurous, surface dwelling cousins who make closer bonds with the other races, while building more empires instead of enduring in the old fortresses. Then you just have to remember that Shields are Mountains mechanically, while being Hills culturally. I mean, that isn't too confusing at all right? Clearly delinated differences between... well, I guess the mechanics are one type of difference and the culture is the opposite sort of difference. Which kind of blurs the lines.No Max, this is not a specific beats general situation. The PHB says that these two races use the same mechanics. Greyhawk Hill Dwarves have one set of lore and culture. Forgotten Realm Gold Dwarves have a different set of lore and culture. The Hill dwarves culture and the Gold Dwarves culture are opposed. They have the culture of the other type of dwarf (Shield and Mountain respectively). Let me show this in a math equation. PHB claims that a=bGreyhawk says that a=1Forgotten Realms says that b=2Therefore either 1=2, or the PHB is wrong and a=/=bAnd, even worse, Mordenkainen's says that FR b=2, while Sword Coast says that FR b=1. And, I have no idea which set of lore to believe. Because, despite Sword Coast being about FR, it was not written by WoTC and it is in direct contradiction of newer material. So, was this a retcon? A mistake? Or is this just a massively confused issue that no one seemed to notice?That isn't what those words mean Max. And, I would have to say that if you really were optimistic, you would not act secretive and with suspicion. If you truly believed that "this time might be different" then you would act as though it were. They don't. They act suspicious and secretive with everybody. That isn't realistic optimism (which frankly is just pessimism or realism with a shiny coat of paint).</blockquote>

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