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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8117800" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Right, so maybe, just maybe, size is a poor indicator of strength? Which makes me wonder why we would rely on it to tell us who is stronger than a normal human...You are proposing a compromise for people on your side of the debate, that you and likely others won't use. You guys will keep doing exactly what people on my side have side. Just use the base rules as written and ignore the optional rule. So, it is a compromise where you are still doing what you want, but we are limited in our customizing ability, to make you feel better about our rules.WoTC is weeks away from releasing Tasha's rules. I don't think you are going to be able to jump in front of that train and derail it.Right, what about their description that I provided makes them weak? Born of Dragons? Nope, you used that to tell me Dragonborn are strong. Miners? Nope, that is why dwarves are strong. Constant physical activity? Nope, that is why Goliaths are strong. Being small? We just finished saying size was a poor indicator, and I countered small = weak with my points about Apes. Depictions? Well, like I said, the 5e Monster Manual kobold looks pretty muscular. I'll link an image. [ATTACH=full]128102[/ATTACH]I see well defined pecs, abs, biceps, triceps, thighs... if I saw a man with those muscles, I certainly wouldn't say he is clearly weak. And this is the main image of Kobolds for this edition. Now, I'll grant, we are told they are weak. But, I can trivially see a setting where the DM decides "Kobolds aren't spindly and weak" and doesn't really have to change much else about them.I think that getting a like is hardly enough to say that you have massive support for your rule. Especially if you said literally anything else in that post that they might have liked.So, it is completely arbitrary. Orcs are strong because Orcs are strong. Dragonborn are strong because Dragonborn are strong. Kobolds are weak because Kobolds are weak. Elves are graceful because elves are graceful. Dwarves are tough because dwarves are tough. Humans are humans because they are humans. It is meaningless logic that can be changed with no effort and no repercussions. Because maybe instead of being strong Orcs are spiritual. Why are they spiritual? Because they are Spiritual. Same logic, same defense. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------And by a "much lesser degree" you mean that they share that niche with at least dozen others. I mean, "strong" describes OrcsGoliathsFirbolgsMountain DwarvesDragonbornHalf ElvesHalf OrcsLeoninBugbearsEarth GenasiFallen AasimarTritonsTortlesChangelingsWarforgedBeasthide ShiftersLongtooth ShiftersGithyankiCentaursMinotaursSimic HybridsLocathahZariel TieflingsDuergarThat is 24 races/subraces who do or can get a +1 or +2 strength. Out of a total count of around 67... That is over 1/3 of all of the official options in the game. Your niche is 36% of all races.So yes, it is a little hard to see why you are vehemently defending this niche, generally at that point of saturation, it isn't a niche anymore.</blockquote>

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