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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8118724" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Re-read your quotes Max. One says that you "can" (as in it is optional) choose to build an NPC like a player character. Meaning that the rule also acknowledges that you can choose not to. The other says that if you are building an NPC specifically to act as an adventurer to fill out a party of PCs, you should use the Character Creation Rules. Which, makes sense. You are building them specifically to fit into the party, so using the same rules as the party is logical.However, if the default was that every NPC was to be built this way... why call it out? And, if you read the rules I quoted, it gives NPCs without using the character creation rules, and specifically labels using the racial mods as an "optional rule" As in, it is specifically labeled as optional. Like you said all optional rules are. So, again, you are wrong here Max. There is no other way to put it.Wow, nice strawman you built there. I'd almost be impressed if it was not a waste of both of our times. As you say below, context is your friend Max. "Can" is used to say "it is possible". In some contexts, like falling off a mountain, it is passive. As in, you do not get to choose. In others, like following rules, it is active, as in, it is a choice that you have the ability to make. And, even further, when the rules themselves give a choice, for example on rolling hp or taking the average result, the word "can" is being used to show that both methods are acceptable.Yeah, I know the context. DEFCON said that not all elves are the most graceful race, even with their +2, because some have a lower score than other races. Your response was "All it takes to be graceful is to hit a 12.  Once you are getting a bonus, you are graceful, which is all that the elven race is claimed to be."So, let us break this down, backwards. The Elven Race has claimed to be GracefulThe Elven Race has succeeded in proving that claimHow have they succeeded? By getting any bonus to their modifier. Because, all it takes to be graceful is to hit a 12 in the stat. You were not declaring that all an Elf needs to be graceful is a 12, because that wouldn't have addressed DEFCONs point. You were declaring that a 12 was sufficient to be graceful, and Elves got that much, so they were graceful. This was your point. And remains so, even if it is inconvenient.But, let us assume just for the sake of argument that elves and elves alone can be graceful with a 12 Dex. Because reasons. You said that a 12 or above stat for a dwarf in dexterity can't be grace, it is hand-eye coordination. So, lets work with this. Dwarves are good with weapons, specifically two thrown weapons. They are also smiths, miners, and masons. All of these activities require high hand-eye coordination. Dex for dwarves represents hand-eye coordination, so using your logic that a dwarf can never be graceful (because reasons) and instead a dwarve's dexterity score represents hand-eye coordination, and that is something that it looks like the majority of dwarves would have a lot of, then dwarves should also get a +2 Dex.</blockquote>

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