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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Scott Christian" data-source="post: 8123343" data-attributes="member: 6901101">That is a very fair statement.And every time you have, I stated that I like the idea of those races having exactly that. But you need a separate setting. I like the idea of having a gnome in a specific setting being a star gazer, communing with nature, and gaining a +2 wisdom. Love it. But make them distinct from the other subraces. If you want to debate that they got the forest gnome wrong with what attributes BEST represent it, I'd listen. In fact, I think you are already right.Italics: Yes, many (including myself) have granted your requests over and over. The called it compromise.Bold: You get it. Good.Underlined: That is what I have asked for. If it homogenized how does it help lore? If it removes archetypes, how does that help lore? (To be fair, you did say it would help certain players, and explained specifically how. And guess what? The other side agreed with you.)Your argument lacks empathy for the people saying they are losing something. And again, in the PHB, there is a line, I concede, that hints at wisdom. 100% agree. But when you read the text as a whole, it is clear that the BEST attribute to represent them is strength. Yet, you can't even concede that. The designers gave them a +2 because they know the language used BEST represents them being physical and strong and hardy. I have no qualms if you read the Eberron orc and chose to argue that they got the ASI's wrong. Again, I would agree with you.Again take the reading in the PHB as a whole. Most who read it will not get what you are getting. They will read it and understand orcs are strong, passionate, physical, and hardy. They will also get that they are poor, rough, and get by on their sheer determination. Then they might also get that some are wise. So if it were a test, asking for the BEST attribute, wisdom would not be most people's first choice. Can you debate it is. Sure. But the amount of language and evidence against you is greater. But you won't concede that it is. Do me a favor, hand the PHB to someone who doesn't play D&D and ask them what the half-orc is like. See if they say wise.It is a good line. It makes me think of a few of them being tempered. Using wisdom to do it? I could argue against that, and say it's constitution. But I won't. I would just say it implies that not a lot of half-orcs can do that. So be it nature or nurture, many can't do it. Yet, the language for strength seems to encompass most half-orcs.</blockquote>

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