Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Jeremy Crawford Discusses Details on Custom Origins
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8125122" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>That is the problem, it isn't 'coincidental' at all. Tolkien LITERALLY consciously modeled orcs on people of Asian origin. He flat out states it in no uncertain terms in his letters. He even elaborates on the racially motivated themes of his work! </p><p>So orcs ARE associated with real people in the real world BY DESIGN. And then they are used to depict stand-in evil people. Beyond that, many of the descriptions are also drawn from exactly the same language used FOR CENTURIES to describe other oppressed minorities. Fitting almost to a T (well, OK, MOST depictions lack the tusks, lol). </p><p>I don't ENTIRELY disagree with you. I don't think that Gary Gygax sat down and thought "I'm going to make a racially derogatory monster now." I never met him myself, but I don't get the impression he was a bigot. I expect he was just (like me I might add) a white guy who never really had to think about what some PoC might think of a humanoid monster which was derived from a depiction of his race, which was cast as an inherently evil 'person' fit only to be slaughtered. It really never occurred to ME until MANY years after I started playing D&D, and even then I had to discuss the topic with people of various ethnicities in order to really fully appreciate the dimensions of the problem.</p><p>So, its OK. Everyone gets a free pass on what went before. However, knowing what we know now, it really isn't conscionable to do or say nothing. We should just revisit these things, decide to make them more than 2-dimensional, and/or try to divorce them from their unfortunate connotations and past. That may mean making Orcs different. I'm betting you can still have some 2D cut-out bad guy orcs! Maybe they're just not quite so blatantly racist in stereotype. Maybe they're also not the only orcs out there, and maybe there's at least a bit more nuance to them (IE maybe their actions have some reason to them). It isn't that hard. Heck, there have been examples of perfectly OK orcs for decades, they are just not the most common depictions. </p><p></p><p>And pretending the issue doesn't exist won't make it go away. If you really could care less if people are hurt and offended, well, that's up to you.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 8125122, member: 82106"] That is the problem, it isn't 'coincidental' at all. Tolkien LITERALLY consciously modeled orcs on people of Asian origin. He flat out states it in no uncertain terms in his letters. He even elaborates on the racially motivated themes of his work! So orcs ARE associated with real people in the real world BY DESIGN. And then they are used to depict stand-in evil people. Beyond that, many of the descriptions are also drawn from exactly the same language used FOR CENTURIES to describe other oppressed minorities. Fitting almost to a T (well, OK, MOST depictions lack the tusks, lol). I don't ENTIRELY disagree with you. I don't think that Gary Gygax sat down and thought "I'm going to make a racially derogatory monster now." I never met him myself, but I don't get the impression he was a bigot. I expect he was just (like me I might add) a white guy who never really had to think about what some PoC might think of a humanoid monster which was derived from a depiction of his race, which was cast as an inherently evil 'person' fit only to be slaughtered. It really never occurred to ME until MANY years after I started playing D&D, and even then I had to discuss the topic with people of various ethnicities in order to really fully appreciate the dimensions of the problem. So, its OK. Everyone gets a free pass on what went before. However, knowing what we know now, it really isn't conscionable to do or say nothing. We should just revisit these things, decide to make them more than 2-dimensional, and/or try to divorce them from their unfortunate connotations and past. That may mean making Orcs different. I'm betting you can still have some 2D cut-out bad guy orcs! Maybe they're just not quite so blatantly racist in stereotype. Maybe they're also not the only orcs out there, and maybe there's at least a bit more nuance to them (IE maybe their actions have some reason to them). It isn't that hard. Heck, there have been examples of perfectly OK orcs for decades, they are just not the most common depictions. And pretending the issue doesn't exist won't make it go away. If you really could care less if people are hurt and offended, well, that's up to you. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Jeremy Crawford Discusses Details on Custom Origins
Top