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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7667160" data-attributes="member: 42582">I can't comment on its prevalence in 5e. In 4e it comes mostly in the form of "when/if you attack" triggers - does that mean rolling an attack roll, or using an attack power (Wall of Fire and errata-ed Magic Missile are the two pretty common wizard powers that I'm familiar with in this context)?Here is the official answer, from the Rules Compendium glossary:attack: An attack roll and its effects, including any damage rolls. The word “attack” is sometimes used as shorthand for “attack power.” Some attack powers include multiple attacks, and some powers, such as magic missile, are designated as attacks yet lack attack rolls (using such a power counts as making an attack if the power has a target). Here are some instances of that answer being applied, from FAQs etc: What happens if I use magic missile while benefiting from a power like greater invisibility? Does it count as an attack and would my invisibility end? Yes, it does, and yes, it would. The initial use of any attack power that has a target line, an attack line, or both counts as making an attack. Because of this fact, using an attack power like the fighter's rain of steel does not count as making an attack, since the power has neither a target line nor an attack line. I’m playing a Warlord with the Tactical Presence class feature.  One of my allies spends an action point and uses an attack power that grants multiple attacks, like Twin Strike.  Does he get the bonus on one of the attacks or both? Tactical Presence just grants a bonus to the next attack your ally would make.  He would only get the bonus on the first attack of the Twin Strike. If I use a blast or burst power that is both thunder and lightning, with the Oncoming Storm feat, do I get the bonus immediately within that power? Yes. If you make multiple attacks with a lightning and thunder power and one of the attacks hits, you can apply that +1 bonus to the subsequent attack rolls. In my view the first answer is somewhat broken, as it allows Wall of Fire or similar powerful attacking effects to be used without breaking invisibility. The second answer seems sensible. The third answer may not be broken, but it makes no sense relative to the fiction, in which all those "attacks" happen simultaneously. One PC in my game has the Echoes of Thunder feat, which grants a damage bonus until the end of next turn after hitting with a thunder power. The logic of that third answer would suggest that the bonus kicks in immediately after the first attack roll is made, but I'm pretty sure that's not how the player in question plays it. (And the feat is plenty powerful enough not being played that way!)</blockquote>

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