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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Wicht" data-source="post: 7667353" data-attributes="member: 221">When the PFRPG was released, the sense of polls on this board, and elsewhere, was that about 10 percent of the community was playing it.  That number increased over the course of the following years. The polls were not scientific, but they gave a pretty good sense of trends.Unless you are willing to publicly accuse them of lying, then it seems reasonable to believe them.  Especially as they were in their 5th printing by 2011...Then there was also the observable growth at conventions. So, there is no good reason to think that their fanbase did not increase more and more as time went on."Hard" information such as specific sales, is indeed difficult to obtain, and if that is your standard of proof, then I wonder why you feel compelled to debate what for you is an unknowable. But there were plenty of other observable ways to gauge the trends. There were polls. There were sales estimates. There are the statements made by people both in Paizo and in WotC. There was the floundering within WotC which led to the creation of an all new edition. All of which means various scenarios have various degrees of plausibility and, I believe, the canny observer can have a reasonable expectation of discerning the trend of events. Or to put it another way, I don't need to know how many raindrops are hitting the ground in order to observe the direction of the wind.If, however, you think that 4e brought in an ever increasing number of players, who all loved it, and Pathfinder has fewer people playing and buying it today then it had when it was initially released... then I am not going to waste the time debating it.</blockquote>

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