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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7661116" data-attributes="member: 42582">I pretty-much agree with this, and completely agree as far as Stealth is concerned.I think it is also OK for the rules to leave something up to GM discretion without expressly flagging it, when what the rules are pointing to is something in the fiction. An example that came up in discussing surprise rules was the idea of a "threat" - only a threat can surprise a character, and I think it is utterly sensible that the GM has ultimate say on what, in the fiction, counts as a threat relative to this or that character.But the stealth rules use nouns - like "obscured", for instance - that don't simply refer to elements of the fiction but also are intended to carry mechanical weight. For instance, they factor into other aspects of PC building - eg clearly Wood Elves are meant to have a benefit using Stealth in the wild that other characters don't get.This is where I want the design team to tell me what they had in mind.And that would have been a perfectly good rule: Burning Wheel's Stealth rules work like this, and I've had no trouble with it. But as you note they wanted it to be more mechanically complex than this (eg racial benefits that are parallel to, not the same as, proficiency and Advantage).I suspect that is true for many experienced referees.But if players read the rulebook and have expectations, having the GM rule a different way can be a problem. Moreso if players invest PC build resources that end up being squandered (or broken).For instance: imagine a Wood Elf hiding behind a wall in a light fog. Does an opponent suffer disadvantage on the Perception check to find the elf? If the answer  is "yes", why? Why does fog make it harder to notice someone behind a wall? And suppose that a wizard disintegrates the wall? Is the elf now harder to spot, easier to spot or is there no difference?I've had posters tell me that while the Elf is behind the wall no disadvantage is suffered (because the detection involves hearing, not sight, and only sighted Perception suffers disadvantage in fog), but if the wall is disintegrated then there is disadvantage to notice the Elf (because the detection is now visual, through a fog). That strikes me as pretty bizarre - how does destroying a barrier between me and the elf make the elf harder to spot? - but maybe that is what the designers had in mind!</blockquote>

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