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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Seeten" data-source="post: 2159966" data-attributes="member: 27186">So from now on, should I tell mages in my campaign that they need to make a melee attack in combat to hit with their shocking grasp, because my reading of the rules states that it is no easier to touch someones shield in a fight than it is to hit them with a sword?This is the identical distinction we have here, and as such, to take your logic to its inevitable slippery slope conclusion, we are heading straight down the path to a single action type for all things. Sunder is different from touch because it deals damage to a target, touch delivers an affect to a target.Striking in combat delivers damage to a target.  Shocking grasp touch delivers an affect to a target.  In your case, a touch rusts. In sunders case, sunder deals damage. Both are fully supported in the rules, as the SRD quotes show. Touching things is easier than striking them with force, thus we have two different mechanics for it. The "mechanistic" approach does sometimes require common sense, as all approaches do. No approach completely leaves common sense out, nor should it.Hypersmurf certainly does not leave out common sense, he uses large heaping helpings of it. And he backs it up with quotes out of the SRD.</blockquote>