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<blockquote data-quote="Mulkhoran" data-source="post: 464856" data-attributes="member: 894">Ok, you know as well as I do that this is completely pointless. Arguing &quot;You think THAT'S bad? Well look at THIS!!&quot; will just lead to ever-increasing one-upsmanship that serves no point. There was an example in an old Dragon mag of Saints, and what they did to become saints. One of them defeated something like 3 greater devils at 1st level.&nbsp; My point is, arguing over semantic differences in what constitutes &quot;Monty Haul&quot; is useless.For the record, I agree that the abilities are neat, and are along the lines of things I've done in my game. However............Well..................yeah. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue&nbsp; &nbsp; :p"&nbsp; data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> That's my point. There's NO such suggestion, or even intimation in the module. There's no guidance for applying these at all. In this particular case, the product is a module. What good is buying a pre-packaged adventure if the level of adjustment that you have to apply to it is so extreme you might as well have written the adventure yourself?Aside from whining about FFE's products <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool&nbsp; &nbsp; :cool:"&nbsp; data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" />&nbsp; , I guess I'd be what most people here call &quot;Monty Haul&quot;. I think the listing of treasure for a 1st level party posted earlier is silly, but I think the description that followed it of a 3rd level party with 2 masterwork items and 2000 gold to their name represents an equally extreme viewpoint.&nbsp; My PCs usually have at least passable magic by that level, a +1 weapon or two, and some disposable magic available.I agree there are 2 concurrent discussions going on here, and I'd just like to clarify that my problem is not with anybody's style of play, just in getting value for my money when buying products, with a reasonable minimum expectation of certain quality. Barring that, I think books should explicitly *state* that they suck on the outside, enforced by law and punishable by death.- Mike</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mulkhoran, post: 464856, member: 894"] Ok, you know as well as I do that this is completely pointless. Arguing "You think THAT'S bad? Well look at THIS!!" will just lead to ever-increasing one-upsmanship that serves no point. There was an example in an old Dragon mag of Saints, and what they did to become saints. One of them defeated something like 3 greater devils at 1st level. My point is, arguing over semantic differences in what constitutes "Monty Haul" is useless. For the record, I agree that the abilities are neat, and are along the lines of things I've done in my game. However............ [B][/B] Well..................yeah. :p That's my point. There's NO such suggestion, or even intimation in the module. There's no guidance for applying these at all. In this particular case, the product is a module. What good is buying a pre-packaged adventure if the level of adjustment that you have to apply to it is so extreme you might as well have written the adventure yourself? Aside from whining about FFE's products :cool: , I guess I'd be what most people here call "Monty Haul". I think the listing of treasure for a 1st level party posted earlier is silly, but I think the description that followed it of a 3rd level party with 2 masterwork items and 2000 gold to their name represents an equally extreme viewpoint. My PCs usually have at least passable magic by that level, a +1 weapon or two, and some disposable magic available. I agree there are 2 concurrent discussions going on here, and I'd just like to clarify that my problem is not with anybody's style of play, just in getting value for my money when buying products, with a reasonable minimum expectation of certain quality. Barring that, I think books should explicitly *state* that they suck on the outside, enforced by law and punishable by death. - Mike [/QUOTE]

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