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<blockquote data-quote="Emerikol" data-source="post: 8214462" data-attributes="member: 6698278">Remember we are discussing multiple play styles.&nbsp; The fact you do not does not mean no one does.&nbsp; That is the whole crux of the matter.Now, also remember that even if a DM would adjudicate an outcome without playing it out as they likely would, they would do so based on the rules and not the real world.&nbsp;&nbsp; In D&amp;D, if a 20th level fighter is surrounded and attacked by 20 1st level fighters he will mop the floor with them.&nbsp; We might agree this is unlikely in the real world.&nbsp; Let's posit it is even if you disagree for purposes of this discussion.&nbsp; The DM is going to know off camera a battle occurred between the 20th level fighter and the 1st level fighters.&nbsp; He won't play it out but he will resolve it based on his knowledge of the rules.&nbsp;&nbsp; At least in my own way of playing.&nbsp; So a game deliberately caters to a particular idea.&nbsp; Does that not mean that other systems might not cater the other way.&nbsp; So system can matter.&nbsp; I was never off of that understanding.&nbsp; You've just realized what I am talking about.&nbsp; If the rules are the physics of the world then it inexorably leads to the idea that characters within that world have some understanding of them.&nbsp; The same way we do with the real world even in the middle ages.&nbsp; It has nothing to do with realism.&nbsp; It's a blind spot in your way of thinking for sure.&nbsp; It's never been about realism.&nbsp; 1e is no more realistic than 3e.&nbsp; We are able to imagine a larger than life fantasy world where PC's and some NPCs as well are super heroic.&nbsp;&nbsp; So you really miss the whole point but I think it is the very fact that it is hard for you to grasp our position that makes you who you are in your preferences.&nbsp; People with different sensibilities have a difficulty with empathy for the other side.As to game system, a game like 1e D&amp;D for example is easy to apply the rules as physics.&nbsp; While super heroic, there is nothing that really seems alien.&nbsp; It's very much like watching tv.&nbsp; There is crap on tv that is completely unrealistic but we buy it.&nbsp; It's plausible in a super heroic setting.&nbsp; And that goes for all sorts of shows not just fantasy/sci-fi shows.&nbsp; Every notice that the hero will easy punch a bad guy once and knock him out until at the end he fights the big bad guy and they will literally beat the living daylights out of each other and neither go down for some time?There are things in a game that just don't sit right despite our ability to include the fantastical.&nbsp; Those things are part of a system typically.&nbsp; When a system has those things, a lot of people decide the system is not for them.&nbsp; Often they don't even know why because not everyone thinks it through like we do.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Emerikol, post: 8214462, member: 6698278"] Remember we are discussing multiple play styles. The fact you do not does not mean no one does. That is the whole crux of the matter. Now, also remember that even if a DM would adjudicate an outcome without playing it out as they likely would, they would do so based on the rules and not the real world. In D&D, if a 20th level fighter is surrounded and attacked by 20 1st level fighters he will mop the floor with them. We might agree this is unlikely in the real world. Let's posit it is even if you disagree for purposes of this discussion. The DM is going to know off camera a battle occurred between the 20th level fighter and the 1st level fighters. He won't play it out but he will resolve it based on his knowledge of the rules. At least in my own way of playing. So a game deliberately caters to a particular idea. Does that not mean that other systems might not cater the other way. So system can matter. I was never off of that understanding. You've just realized what I am talking about. If the rules are the physics of the world then it inexorably leads to the idea that characters within that world have some understanding of them. The same way we do with the real world even in the middle ages. It has nothing to do with realism. It's a blind spot in your way of thinking for sure. It's never been about realism. 1e is no more realistic than 3e. We are able to imagine a larger than life fantasy world where PC's and some NPCs as well are super heroic. So you really miss the whole point but I think it is the very fact that it is hard for you to grasp our position that makes you who you are in your preferences. People with different sensibilities have a difficulty with empathy for the other side. As to game system, a game like 1e D&D for example is easy to apply the rules as physics. While super heroic, there is nothing that really seems alien. It's very much like watching tv. There is crap on tv that is completely unrealistic but we buy it. It's plausible in a super heroic setting. And that goes for all sorts of shows not just fantasy/sci-fi shows. Every notice that the hero will easy punch a bad guy once and knock him out until at the end he fights the big bad guy and they will literally beat the living daylights out of each other and neither go down for some time? There are things in a game that just don't sit right despite our ability to include the fantastical. Those things are part of a system typically. When a system has those things, a lot of people decide the system is not for them. Often they don't even know why because not everyone thinks it through like we do. [/QUOTE]

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