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Jon Peterson posts Mordenkainen in 1974
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<blockquote data-quote="Sacrosanct" data-source="post: 7749561" data-attributes="member: 15700"><p>Sounds like you have more of an immature player issue, rather than a game design one. I've played AD&D as my preferred edition from 1981 to 2012 when 5e came out. Almost never saw those problems you describe, and the only times they did happen, was when the player was immature and selfish.</p><p></p><p>Simple answer: don't play with immature and selfish players.</p><p></p><p>And yes, I will argue that AD&D is less stat dependent. For one, WotC editions are literally designed with the assumption that players will have X amount of bonuses to their key stats. It's built into the game design itself. AD&D doesn't have that. Just from that alone, later editions are more stat dependent because it's literally a factor into the game design itself. Secondly, it is entirely possible and plausible to have an effective PC in AD&D with lower stats and harder in later editions. Most of you bonuses like ability to hit your enemy were more heavily influenced by level and not stat. For example, a 1e fighter gained roughly a +1 to hit every level gained, and the difference between a 17 strength and a 9 strength is only a +1 difference to hit. So a 10th level fighter could have the stat bonus only be 10% of the total bonus to hit. Compare that to say, 5e, where your level might give you a +3 bonus to hit at that level, but the difference between a 17 and a 9 is 4 points--more than 50% of your hit bonus is based on stat, not level.</p><p></p><p>Then you've also got the shift from saving throw tables to saving throws based on stats. And then add in skills. So yeah, it seems pretty obvious to me that AD&D is much less stat dependent than WotC editions.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sacrosanct, post: 7749561, member: 15700"] Sounds like you have more of an immature player issue, rather than a game design one. I've played AD&D as my preferred edition from 1981 to 2012 when 5e came out. Almost never saw those problems you describe, and the only times they did happen, was when the player was immature and selfish. Simple answer: don't play with immature and selfish players. And yes, I will argue that AD&D is less stat dependent. For one, WotC editions are literally designed with the assumption that players will have X amount of bonuses to their key stats. It's built into the game design itself. AD&D doesn't have that. Just from that alone, later editions are more stat dependent because it's literally a factor into the game design itself. Secondly, it is entirely possible and plausible to have an effective PC in AD&D with lower stats and harder in later editions. Most of you bonuses like ability to hit your enemy were more heavily influenced by level and not stat. For example, a 1e fighter gained roughly a +1 to hit every level gained, and the difference between a 17 strength and a 9 strength is only a +1 difference to hit. So a 10th level fighter could have the stat bonus only be 10% of the total bonus to hit. Compare that to say, 5e, where your level might give you a +3 bonus to hit at that level, but the difference between a 17 and a 9 is 4 points--more than 50% of your hit bonus is based on stat, not level. Then you've also got the shift from saving throw tables to saving throws based on stats. And then add in skills. So yeah, it seems pretty obvious to me that AD&D is much less stat dependent than WotC editions. [/QUOTE]
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