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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ratskinner" data-source="post: 7749803" data-attributes="member: 6688937">No problem.I disagree with your reasoning and interpretations for the reasons I cited. You can say that you think the linear stats of WotC D&D makes the game more stat-dependent than something like forbidding someone from even taking a class they want, but that is purely a matter of opinion at that point. Repeating the assertion doesn't help your case. Your "pure math" points are nonsense, as I illustrated. You just cherry picked which parts of the stat curve and rules you want to emphasize. It is true that impact of stats in the old editions is less linear (or orderly) and less openly-acknowledged (or explicit) than it is in the WotC editions, but that doesn't make it lesser. Its an aberration that I've seen so many times that it beggars comprehension in human nature. I'm not even sure I've seen an AD&D pure fighter without %ile Strength. Seeing these early characters, and listening to how people react to conversations like these, I am forced to believe that stat-cheating was so commonplace in the early days that it was expected.  I don't believe the math supports your final assertion in this paragraph. Girdles of Giant Strength were in the game pretty early on. The last AD&D Dwarf Fighter I saw had a Strength 23 (IIRC) from a belt of some kind. Are you counting AD&D as a "later edition?" Depending on where you draw your early/later edition line, 2e AD&D had (IIRC) Dex 19+ characters automatically become ambidextrous and two-weapon capable.It is and they do not. You're picking a few simple modes of comparison, and ignoring the fact that there are other modes that are profound in their impact on play and characters. These modes are not all mathematically comparable because they are qualitatively different (i.e. apples and oranges). I mean, how do you even begin to compare "You just can't be a paladin." and "You do X% more DPR?" You might say/think/feel that more rolls in play are stat dependent, but you can't really compare the rolls and decisions that a player won't even be making in play because the dice forbade them from taking class X or race Y? That renders that impression a matter of opinion.</blockquote>

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