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<blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 3905277" data-attributes="member: 5143">True.&nbsp; I think that PA is fun, but it is still a problem.&nbsp; It might not be in your particular group, but it is in general across all groups.I can tell you from experience having a number of new people join my home game as well as running RPGA conventions at gaming stores where new people are always showing up asking to play that the situation with power attack goes the same way 90% of the time:New Player: &quot;I don't know how to play this game, but I want to learn!&quot;Everyone Else: &quot;You should be a fighter, its easy to learn and you get to use a big sword and kill the enemies.&quot;New Player: &quot;That sounds cool.&nbsp; I don't know how to make up a character though.&quot;Someone: &quot;No problem, you are a human fighter with power attack, cleave, and a high strength.&quot;....New Player: &quot;Ok, I attack the enemy.&quot;Someone: &quot;You should use power attack.&nbsp; It lets you take a minus to your attack and add damage instead.&quot;New Player: &quot;Doing more damage is good.&nbsp; How do I do that?&quot;Someone: &quot;You just take a minus to your attack and add that much to your damage.&quot;New Player: &quot;So, I rolled at 12....what does that mean?&quot;Someone: &quot;Well, how much were you power attacking for?&quot;New Player: &quot;Oh, I didn't know I had to say before I rolled.&quot;Someone: &quot;Yeah, since you need to minus that off your to hit roll.&quot;New Player: &quot;Oh...I think I get it now....so, it says I have plus 7 to hit, so I add that to the 12 and I get...19.&quot;Someone: &quot;Except you are power attacking...for 4 you said.&quot;New Player: &quot;Right, so...then what do I hit?&quot;Someone: &quot;15.&nbsp; Which is 19 minus 4.&quot;New Player: &quot;Ok, so then I roll the damage listed on the sheet?&quot;Someone: &quot;Yes.&quot;New Player: &quot;I get 10.&quot;Someone: &quot;That seems wrong, you power attacked for 4 and you rolled 4 on the dice.&nbsp; It seems too low.&nbsp; You added the damage from power attack?&quot;New Player: &quot;No, I forgot, I was just looking at the numbers on my sheet.&nbsp; Then I get 14.&quot;Someone: &quot;Keep in mind that when you use power attack with a two handed weapon you get double the amount you power attack for to damage.&quot;New Player: &quot;That's 18 then.&quot;DM: &quot;Either way, this discussion is pointless, the enemy has an AC of 16 and 15 misses.&quot;(next round)Someone: &quot;So, are you going to power attack again?&quot;New Player: &quot;Sure...how much should I power attack for?&nbsp; I don't want to miss again.&quot;Someone: &quot;That's up to you, it can be anything.&quot;New Player: &quot;I don't know what's best though, what do you think?&quot;....etc.We currently have one player in our group who can't do the math on power attack at all and calculates either the attack roll or the damage roll wrong every time she does it (although she's getting better, she only does it wrong about 30% of the time now).We have another player who, whenever he does math involving a power attack doubles or triples the length of his turn.It isn't isolated to just a few groups.&nbsp; I have no doubt that some groups are entirely filled with people that don't have a problem with power attack and therefore don't see it.However, I can say from experience that dumbing down the game IS a good thing.&nbsp; As a large number of players I've met can't handle the current complexity.&nbsp; At least, not well.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Majoru Oakheart, post: 3905277, member: 5143"] True. I think that PA is fun, but it is still a problem. It might not be in your particular group, but it is in general across all groups. I can tell you from experience having a number of new people join my home game as well as running RPGA conventions at gaming stores where new people are always showing up asking to play that the situation with power attack goes the same way 90% of the time: New Player: "I don't know how to play this game, but I want to learn!" Everyone Else: "You should be a fighter, its easy to learn and you get to use a big sword and kill the enemies." New Player: "That sounds cool. I don't know how to make up a character though." Someone: "No problem, you are a human fighter with power attack, cleave, and a high strength." .... New Player: "Ok, I attack the enemy." Someone: "You should use power attack. It lets you take a minus to your attack and add damage instead." New Player: "Doing more damage is good. How do I do that?" Someone: "You just take a minus to your attack and add that much to your damage." New Player: "So, I rolled at 12....what does that mean?" Someone: "Well, how much were you power attacking for?" New Player: "Oh, I didn't know I had to say before I rolled." Someone: "Yeah, since you need to minus that off your to hit roll." New Player: "Oh...I think I get it now....so, it says I have plus 7 to hit, so I add that to the 12 and I get...19." Someone: "Except you are power attacking...for 4 you said." New Player: "Right, so...then what do I hit?" Someone: "15. Which is 19 minus 4." New Player: "Ok, so then I roll the damage listed on the sheet?" Someone: "Yes." New Player: "I get 10." Someone: "That seems wrong, you power attacked for 4 and you rolled 4 on the dice. It seems too low. You added the damage from power attack?" New Player: "No, I forgot, I was just looking at the numbers on my sheet. Then I get 14." Someone: "Keep in mind that when you use power attack with a two handed weapon you get double the amount you power attack for to damage." New Player: "That's 18 then." DM: "Either way, this discussion is pointless, the enemy has an AC of 16 and 15 misses." (next round) Someone: "So, are you going to power attack again?" New Player: "Sure...how much should I power attack for? I don't want to miss again." Someone: "That's up to you, it can be anything." New Player: "I don't know what's best though, what do you think?" .... etc. We currently have one player in our group who can't do the math on power attack at all and calculates either the attack roll or the damage roll wrong every time she does it (although she's getting better, she only does it wrong about 30% of the time now). We have another player who, whenever he does math involving a power attack doubles or triples the length of his turn. It isn't isolated to just a few groups. I have no doubt that some groups are entirely filled with people that don't have a problem with power attack and therefore don't see it. However, I can say from experience that dumbing down the game IS a good thing. As a large number of players I've met can't handle the current complexity. At least, not well. [/QUOTE]

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