Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Jonathan Tweet: Streamlining Third Edition
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Alzrius" data-source="post: 7833279" data-attributes="member: 8461"><p>I really don't think that "relegated" is the proper term for still being in one of the Core Rulebooks. Likewise, while the 2E presentation had optional rules for altering how stringently to apply them, that's a far cry from saying that they "did away" with them (or even "largely" did away with them). They weren't even that substantial, being one modest sidebar about slow advancement past the stated level limits, and another modest sidebar about exceeding level limits for demihumans with high ability scores.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Not really. Even leaving aside the casual use of terms like "upper edge" and "most campaigns," the degree to which the limits were raised were in most cases small, and in some cases marginal. Dwarves could be 8th level clerics in AD&D 1E, and 10th level clerics in AD&D 2E. Elves could be a 7th level fighter in AD&D 1E, and a 12th level fighter in AD&D 2E. A half-elf could be an 8th level magic-user in AD&D 1E, and a 12th level mage in AD&D 2E.</p><p></p><p>In the case of thieves, the level limit actually went <em>down</em> in AD&D 2E. While most demihumans could progress to an unlimited degree in the thief class in First Edition, Second Edition hit them with caps: 12th level for elves, half-elves, and dwarves, 13th level for gnomes, and 15th level for halflings.</p><p></p><p>Here are the tables from First and Second Edition, respectively:</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]114908[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]114909[/ATTACH]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Alzrius, post: 7833279, member: 8461"] I really don't think that "relegated" is the proper term for still being in one of the Core Rulebooks. Likewise, while the 2E presentation had optional rules for altering how stringently to apply them, that's a far cry from saying that they "did away" with them (or even "largely" did away with them). They weren't even that substantial, being one modest sidebar about slow advancement past the stated level limits, and another modest sidebar about exceeding level limits for demihumans with high ability scores. Not really. Even leaving aside the casual use of terms like "upper edge" and "most campaigns," the degree to which the limits were raised were in most cases small, and in some cases marginal. Dwarves could be 8th level clerics in AD&D 1E, and 10th level clerics in AD&D 2E. Elves could be a 7th level fighter in AD&D 1E, and a 12th level fighter in AD&D 2E. A half-elf could be an 8th level magic-user in AD&D 1E, and a 12th level mage in AD&D 2E. In the case of thieves, the level limit actually went [i]down[/i] in AD&D 2E. While most demihumans could progress to an unlimited degree in the thief class in First Edition, Second Edition hit them with caps: 12th level for elves, half-elves, and dwarves, 13th level for gnomes, and 15th level for halflings. Here are the tables from First and Second Edition, respectively: [ATTACH type="full"]114908[/ATTACH][ATTACH type="full"]114909[/ATTACH] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Jonathan Tweet: Streamlining Third Edition
Top