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Jonathan Tweet: Streamlining Third Edition
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<blockquote data-quote="GreyLord" data-source="post: 7834337" data-attributes="member: 4348"><p>One of the things 3e did was that it NERFED Fighters hard and basically raised the Power Level of Casters.</p><p></p><p>A very simple thing they did away with was spell interruption and replaced it with Concentration Mechanics. </p><p>Spell Interruption was an great idea of balancing the LFQW idea, in that any wizard, no matter how powerful they were could have their magic interrupted simply by someone who was faster than they and could deliver a hit.</p><p></p><p>3e seemed to have been made for those who loved wizards and clerics and did not really think of any of the other classes nor the ramifications of what they did to empower spellcasters would have in relation to other classes. It made it so that you HAD to be a spellcaster to really be on par with others in the party who were also spellcasters. </p><p></p><p>OF course, you could play it differently (and we did) but it took a conscious action of the DM to counter the spellcasting rates and actions behind it or to add something to the Martials to give them a tip up.</p><p></p><p>This has continued in part with 5e. People talk about how much damage a Fighter "CAN" do but rarely does that idea that the Fighter has problems actually being a fighter (hit more often than others) still. The ramifications of the Martial Nerf from 3e still seem to holdover with game design today.</p><p></p><p>I would argue BA still hurts the Fighter Non-spellcasters and other Martial non-spellcasters (so, things like the Eldritch Knight might not suffer as greatly) in terms of not just hitting, but also with saves. Magic-users, even in 5e just target the weak save and are FAR more successful than they were or could have been in prior editions at mid and high levels.</p><p></p><p>This is the other side of the Fighter Nerf, nerfing the Save system. Sure, everything was united in one mechanic under 3e, but Saves were nerfed hard. They LOVED the spellcasters in 3e and wanted them to succeed in casting spells much more often apparently. </p><p></p><p>So...to all appearances, 3e actually buffed spellcasters rather than anything to make them weaker, and seriously nerfed anyone who wasn't a spellcaster. Unfortunately that mentality still exists with 5e, though it takes a bit more system mastery for one who is a spellcaster to truly rule supreme over the Martials (you have to know what saves they have and which ones are their weak ones, as well as which spells to use to exploit these weaknesses in 5e). </p><p></p><p>So, it's not as apparent in 5e (more system mastery is required to even see it at times), but it is still there. The heritage of the Spellcaster from 3e.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="GreyLord, post: 7834337, member: 4348"] One of the things 3e did was that it NERFED Fighters hard and basically raised the Power Level of Casters. A very simple thing they did away with was spell interruption and replaced it with Concentration Mechanics. Spell Interruption was an great idea of balancing the LFQW idea, in that any wizard, no matter how powerful they were could have their magic interrupted simply by someone who was faster than they and could deliver a hit. 3e seemed to have been made for those who loved wizards and clerics and did not really think of any of the other classes nor the ramifications of what they did to empower spellcasters would have in relation to other classes. It made it so that you HAD to be a spellcaster to really be on par with others in the party who were also spellcasters. OF course, you could play it differently (and we did) but it took a conscious action of the DM to counter the spellcasting rates and actions behind it or to add something to the Martials to give them a tip up. This has continued in part with 5e. People talk about how much damage a Fighter "CAN" do but rarely does that idea that the Fighter has problems actually being a fighter (hit more often than others) still. The ramifications of the Martial Nerf from 3e still seem to holdover with game design today. I would argue BA still hurts the Fighter Non-spellcasters and other Martial non-spellcasters (so, things like the Eldritch Knight might not suffer as greatly) in terms of not just hitting, but also with saves. Magic-users, even in 5e just target the weak save and are FAR more successful than they were or could have been in prior editions at mid and high levels. This is the other side of the Fighter Nerf, nerfing the Save system. Sure, everything was united in one mechanic under 3e, but Saves were nerfed hard. They LOVED the spellcasters in 3e and wanted them to succeed in casting spells much more often apparently. So...to all appearances, 3e actually buffed spellcasters rather than anything to make them weaker, and seriously nerfed anyone who wasn't a spellcaster. Unfortunately that mentality still exists with 5e, though it takes a bit more system mastery for one who is a spellcaster to truly rule supreme over the Martials (you have to know what saves they have and which ones are their weak ones, as well as which spells to use to exploit these weaknesses in 5e). So, it's not as apparent in 5e (more system mastery is required to even see it at times), but it is still there. The heritage of the Spellcaster from 3e. [/QUOTE]
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