Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Judgement calls vs "railroading"
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7056313" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>To use your term, failure leading to status quo. A dead end.</p><p></p><p>Because it gives the players (and characters, I suppose) the illusion of their having a chance of success where there is none. Just say 'no' and get on with it.</p><p></p><p>Perhaps, though I don't so much see it as a puzzle. Instead, it's a chain of events - much like an AP - such that if you don't do task a before attempting task b then the outcome of task b must be failure. (not a railroad, however, in that choice exists as to whether to do task a at all and if done, whether to go on to task b or find something else to do)</p><p></p><p>Until they run out of doors other than the one they can't get through. It's a classic trope, actually, that you need to do or find one thing before doing another...and as a nice side effect it can be a great way to spin a single adventure out into three or four:</p><p>Adv. 1 - go to the Ruins of Fortune, explore and clear out some of it, hit a door you cannot pass and realize you need a specific key</p><p>Adv. 2 - go somewhere else where in a ruined library somewhere you find the history and present whereabouts of said key (Verbrugge's Hold)</p><p>Adv. 3 - go get the key from Verbrugge the Giant. Enjoy the giant-clobbering.</p><p>Adv. 4 - return to Fortune, use the key, get through the door, and carry on.</p><p></p><p>OK, I see the difference now. To me "forward" is defined by how the failure relates to the characters' goal(s) - do they get closer to their goal, go nowhere, or go backward. To you it relates to advancement of the story; and your example of the night watch capture would in my eyes be a fail-backward.</p><p></p><p>It occurs to me one big difference between fail-forward/backward and fail-status-quo is that with fail-status-quo the characters have to come up with a plan B with (usually) no new information to go by, where with a fail-forward/backward something changes and one way or another they have (because the DM has provided) new information simply by narrating the changes. Fail-status-quo puts the onus on the players (in character) to generate movement; the other is easier on the players as it hands them the movement (for better or worse) and simply asks what they do with it.</p><p></p><p>Lanefan</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 7056313, member: 29398"] To use your term, failure leading to status quo. A dead end. Because it gives the players (and characters, I suppose) the illusion of their having a chance of success where there is none. Just say 'no' and get on with it. Perhaps, though I don't so much see it as a puzzle. Instead, it's a chain of events - much like an AP - such that if you don't do task a before attempting task b then the outcome of task b must be failure. (not a railroad, however, in that choice exists as to whether to do task a at all and if done, whether to go on to task b or find something else to do) Until they run out of doors other than the one they can't get through. It's a classic trope, actually, that you need to do or find one thing before doing another...and as a nice side effect it can be a great way to spin a single adventure out into three or four: Adv. 1 - go to the Ruins of Fortune, explore and clear out some of it, hit a door you cannot pass and realize you need a specific key Adv. 2 - go somewhere else where in a ruined library somewhere you find the history and present whereabouts of said key (Verbrugge's Hold) Adv. 3 - go get the key from Verbrugge the Giant. Enjoy the giant-clobbering. Adv. 4 - return to Fortune, use the key, get through the door, and carry on. OK, I see the difference now. To me "forward" is defined by how the failure relates to the characters' goal(s) - do they get closer to their goal, go nowhere, or go backward. To you it relates to advancement of the story; and your example of the night watch capture would in my eyes be a fail-backward. It occurs to me one big difference between fail-forward/backward and fail-status-quo is that with fail-status-quo the characters have to come up with a plan B with (usually) no new information to go by, where with a fail-forward/backward something changes and one way or another they have (because the DM has provided) new information simply by narrating the changes. Fail-status-quo puts the onus on the players (in character) to generate movement; the other is easier on the players as it hands them the movement (for better or worse) and simply asks what they do with it. Lanefan [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Judgement calls vs "railroading"
Top