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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7058185" data-attributes="member: 29398">Not sure how far I'll get witht his right now, but here goes...It wasn't an established part of the fiction as nobody had yet interacted with it, but was it on the DM's map?  Or was the complex even pre-mapped at all? (if not, you're so far away from anything I can relate to you might as well be speaking Russian of Swahili or some other language I don't know a word of)  My terminology might be more Fail Sideways in this case, but this all seems like normal run-of-play stuff where someone hit what amounts to a chute trap and has to find their way back to the party via some dangers.  But, a bit more info (or clarification) needed:1. Was the trap (for such it is) already on the DM's map or did it suddenly spring into existence at the moment you needed to come up with a failure result?  If pre-present, see next question.  If spur-of-the-moment, the you're into "GM Force" territory...probably not in a bad way, but it's there.2. If the trap was a pre-planned thing, then (to cover what some others might be thinking) was there some warning given of it so the party knew to be careful?  If not, you're into "gotcha" territory, which I personally have no issue with but others - for whatever reason - do.We could have such a conversation but I think it would almost immediately become over-analysis...we're proabaly there already, for all that. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  At massive cost of immersion and realism.  The character, as the character, has no way of knowing how tough that particular foe it until well into a combat with it, and even then only in general terms.  From a standpoint of character knowledge = player knowledge there's no way I could ever get behind your method, and were I in your game I'd lobby hard for you NOT to tell us such things.Except the character doesn't have that information.  This isn't a video game where the opponents go around with little green/red bars over their heads showing their health status...particularly opponents where the characters alomst certainly don't even know its physiology (as in, the Aboleth) and thus would likely have a hard time knowing whether what they were doing to it was having much effect or not, until it started to fall apart.  Well, some of it can if you let it; and if you don't let the mechanics dictate everything.  What's realistic?  The black knight foe is wearing heavy armour thus will likely be harder to damage - fine.  But that doesn't tell the characters what else the knight might have going for it...or not...so there's absolutely no reason to tell anybody its AC.Strict turn-based combat rounds where everything else freezes while one participant acts are awful.  Combat is fluid, and where this can be reflected by the mechanics it should be even if it takes a bit more time (e.g. rerolling initiative each round).  Action economy...yeah, that's a new-age thing.I have to take your word for all this. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Depends on style.  Me, I've usually got one adventure in the can and maybe one or two others in mind (but by no means fully prepped) in case they throw me a curveball.  If I've got three adventures fully prepped that means I've got a scenario in mind where they're going to hit all three. However, it occurs to me there's a counterbalance you might be ignoring: a system where much is made up on the fly is going to require meticulous note-taking both at the time and afterwards in order that consistency be preserved down the road...far more so than B/X, where much of that is done during prep and the only recordkeeping later needs be what the PCs actually did; and for this often broad-brush strokes will do.  So, in a DW-like system I suspect there's almost as much work involved, but back-loaded as opposed to B/X where it's front-loaded.I'm not one at all for taking notes during a game unless I absolutely have to - I can't talk (or listen) and write at the same time, so for me to take notes everything grinds to a halt.I'm more used to 1e-style mechanics...which can also be (or be made to be) elegant and coherent, and can almost run itself once you've done it a few times (and the same can probably be said for 'most any half-decent system out there).  Were it me, that's something I'd change, as I always want there to be a chance of failure (or, when something is near-but-not-quite impossible, success).  Nothing's guaranteed: the held goblin could squirm just at the wrong moment, or the Elf could be distracted by the other Goblins and miss (or, in a game with fumble possibilities, cut his own thumb), or whatever.Realistically, morale goes out the window when something is threatened with imminent death, so that captured Goblin would squirm and bite and do whatever it could once it saw the dagger coming. (and mechanics be damned)Probably not, but if the Elf misses maybe the Goblins start thinking they do have a chance... As the Aboleth is a known foe (as opposed to a true wandering monster) at this point, I'd be treating it more like an NPC with its own agenda, based on whatever brains it might have.  If it's smart its movements and actions would reflect this (maybe it goes and gets its buddies and they set up an ambush); if it's stupid it would move more randomly, or not at all.I've never seen Aliens (not the least bit interested) so the analogy is lost on me.Where I'd try and put myself in the mind of that Aboleth and have it act as it would naturally act, given what I-as-DM know about it.  And this is (or should be) system-independent: monsters have their own intelligence, their own motivations, and sometimes their own agendae; and in all instances this is what would drive their actions once they become aware of the PCs.  The PCs do what they do, the monster does what it does, and sooner or later they're either gonna interact with each other or they're not.I think that definition you quoted (and I'll re-quote here):is again too broad, particularly clause (b), as read literally it tells me that no matter what else is involved the players (and PCs) always have to win unless for some reason they intentionally choose not to.  They're always right.  Their choices can't be gainsaid, or be later proven foolish or wrong or to have unforeseen ill effects (foreseen ill effects would be part of the choice process at the time, one assumes).Reading clause (b) literally it tells me that even if I-as-DM have prepped the first adventure as a stealth mission (with the specific intention of making it low-combat and thus perhaps a bit safer for 1st-level types) I can't run it if the players all decide to bring in heavy metal tank PCs as I'd be undermining their significant choices.  Balderdash.What's getting lost here (perhaps by design) is the idea that it's first and foremost the DM's game, as shown by some Gygax quotes earlier this thread.  This is a philosophy I still subscribe to, both as player and DM.Lan-"appreciative of the thought you're putting into this, even if I don't agree with much of it"-efan</blockquote>

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