Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Judgement calls vs "railroading"
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7073196" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>In referring to a "classic sandbox" with a "somewhat static, reactive character" I'm following [MENTION=16586]Campbell[/MENTION]'s post 65; and [MENTION=99817]chaochou[/MENTION]'s post 41:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The "scenarios" in this style are essentially "static" situations that the PCs engage via their PCs. The examples I have in mind, based on my own experience with material being published c1977-c1982, are for B/X, OD&D and early AD&D, RQ and Traveller.</p><p></p><p>The Village of Hommlet is an example that [MENTION=29398]Lanefan[/MENTION] and I discussed upthread - we were in agreement that the situation is "static" until the PCs inject themselves into it, which I regarded as a virtue but Lanefan as a weakness.</p><p></p><p>The classic dungeon is another example - be that a semi-serious dungeon, like the example of The Haunted Keep in Moldvay Basic, or a funhouse dungeon like White Plume Mountain, or some intermediate example like Moldvay's Castle Amber.</p><p></p><p>In the case of Traveller, I'm thinking of White Dwarf scenarios like The Sable Rose Affair or Amber to Red; or GDW modules like Mission on Mithril.</p><p></p><p>These scenarios don't have a trajectory of their own. They are situations conceived of by the referee for the players to engage via their PCs - poking here, asking questions there, gradually building up a picture of the situation so that (ultimately) they can "beat" it.</p><p></p><p>Because the situation is static but for the response to the PCs, the actual sequence of events in play is driven by player choices - they choose which rooms the PCs enter and which they ignore; they choose whether the PCs try to sneak past the guards or assault them; when these sorts of scenarios are incorporated into a larger "world", the players choose which "hits" to make and which to leave.</p><p></p><p>In this sort of play, a lot of NPC responses are determined randomly (reaction rolls; evasion rolls; etc - with the players being able to influence this by standard strategies like offering bribes) or by generic scripts (hobgoblins hate elves and always attack them; skeletons fight until destroyed; etc) which the players are capable of learning via divination magic, collecting lore from NPCs (think of classic D&D's elaborate rules for sages), etc.</p><p></p><p>When the GM turns the "world" into a "living, breathing one" - ie the sorts of changes [MENTION=29398]Lanefan[/MENTION], upthread, said that he would prefer to see made to T1 - it is no longer the players who are choosing what parts of the "world" to engage, and driving the fiction by their choices. The world is going to come to them (eg if the players ignore the orcs, the GM works out orcish events offscreen, and these then feed back into the events that occur to the players). The extreme example of this is the players whose PCs ignore the cultist plot and find, X amount of game time down the track, that the world has come to an end in a great apocalypse. But the same trajectory of play can unfold in less extreme cases.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7073196, member: 42582"] In referring to a "classic sandbox" with a "somewhat static, reactive character" I'm following [MENTION=16586]Campbell[/MENTION]'s post 65; and [MENTION=99817]chaochou[/MENTION]'s post 41: The "scenarios" in this style are essentially "static" situations that the PCs engage via their PCs. The examples I have in mind, based on my own experience with material being published c1977-c1982, are for B/X, OD&D and early AD&D, RQ and Traveller. The Village of Hommlet is an example that [MENTION=29398]Lanefan[/MENTION] and I discussed upthread - we were in agreement that the situation is "static" until the PCs inject themselves into it, which I regarded as a virtue but Lanefan as a weakness. The classic dungeon is another example - be that a semi-serious dungeon, like the example of The Haunted Keep in Moldvay Basic, or a funhouse dungeon like White Plume Mountain, or some intermediate example like Moldvay's Castle Amber. In the case of Traveller, I'm thinking of White Dwarf scenarios like The Sable Rose Affair or Amber to Red; or GDW modules like Mission on Mithril. These scenarios don't have a trajectory of their own. They are situations conceived of by the referee for the players to engage via their PCs - poking here, asking questions there, gradually building up a picture of the situation so that (ultimately) they can "beat" it. Because the situation is static but for the response to the PCs, the actual sequence of events in play is driven by player choices - they choose which rooms the PCs enter and which they ignore; they choose whether the PCs try to sneak past the guards or assault them; when these sorts of scenarios are incorporated into a larger "world", the players choose which "hits" to make and which to leave. In this sort of play, a lot of NPC responses are determined randomly (reaction rolls; evasion rolls; etc - with the players being able to influence this by standard strategies like offering bribes) or by generic scripts (hobgoblins hate elves and always attack them; skeletons fight until destroyed; etc) which the players are capable of learning via divination magic, collecting lore from NPCs (think of classic D&D's elaborate rules for sages), etc. When the GM turns the "world" into a "living, breathing one" - ie the sorts of changes [MENTION=29398]Lanefan[/MENTION], upthread, said that he would prefer to see made to T1 - it is no longer the players who are choosing what parts of the "world" to engage, and driving the fiction by their choices. The world is going to come to them (eg if the players ignore the orcs, the GM works out orcish events offscreen, and these then feed back into the events that occur to the players). The extreme example of this is the players whose PCs ignore the cultist plot and find, X amount of game time down the track, that the world has come to an end in a great apocalypse. But the same trajectory of play can unfold in less extreme cases. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Judgement calls vs "railroading"
Top